[Az-Geocaching] CITO 2005 #2

Thu Apr 28 04:44:28 MST 2005

Brian..............Your reply is exactly what I expected in response to my post. I know you organized the Adopt-A-Highway cleanup and I'm sure it has made a difference along this section of highway. I applaud your efforts and those who have participated in the cleanup events. I never said it was "wrong" to cleanup this section of highway as you implied, but don't need somebody telling me or other cachers that we aren't serious geocachers because we didn't show up to do this cleanup. CITO is a good thing, and if you were to ask other cachers we've hunted with, I'm sure they would tell you that we practice CITO as much as the next guy. I know this is important to you and that's fine, but I'd much rather spend my time cleaning up an area that is closer to my heart. That's my choice and is just as important to me as the Geocaching section is to you. Myself and Mrs. Wrangler spent an hour and a half picking up trash along Cochran Rd. heading into the Cochran Campout last month, and actually had one of the local residents stop and thank us for helping keep this small area a little cleaner. Isn't "this" what CITO is supposed to be about? I guess I consider myself and Mrs. Wrangler "serious" geocachers, regardless what Sport Trac/K or anybody else thinks. To imply that the 20 or so people who showed up for the cleanup are the only dedicated CITO geocachers in Az. is ludicrous. The quote from Sport Trac/K makes me assume that he was a little disappointed with the turnout. As stated before, some people have commitments and/or family business to tend to, and can't make it to the cleanups. Don't for one second believe that these cachers aren't as dedicated as those who turned out for the cleanup. Anyway, I think I made my point and won't dwell on this any longer. .....................P.S. ............Steve..How many AA batteries does it take to make your pants sag?................  

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Casteel
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:13 AM
To: listserv at azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] CITO 2005 #2

I took many deep breaths before I opted to say anything in response.  So, here goes...

It WAS the dirtiest section of highway because it was unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of regional winds that happen to flow across the landfill before reaching this area.  It also happens to cut right through the heart of reservation land, which unless blind, isn't well maintained unless it falls within the immediate proximity of a sacred cash cow (aka, casinos).  It also happens to be a public highway, and a fair percentage of those who travel it feel that the world is their trash can, from cigarette butts to used drug paraphernalia.  True, state highways cut right through these lands, and state easements on either side of said highway isn't the responsibility of those whose land it cuts through.  The state really should be the ones handling this, but thanks to everyone else holding out their hand for a piece of the taxpayer pie, that possibility is never going to be realized.  Looking for a way to let groups/individuals/families promote themselves through community service, ADOT created the Adopt-A-Highway Program, in an effort to allow generous and able folks to volunteer their time for the betterment of all, not just for the pimping of their groups or ideals.  Now, you suspect that this stretch of highway was available because it was such a dump.  I'm here to tell you that you are DEAD WRONG, and here's why I know this.  Beneath the words Arizona Geocachers is the name of a local business in Phoenix, who shall remain nameless.  This business, according to ADOT has completely neglected this stretch of highway for quite awhile, allowing it to fall into such disarray, which made it available for adoption, as well as several other stretches that weren't as close to town as this for us.  It also has a less than desired reputation, which follows the lack of desire to uphold their commitment.

Thanks to the cachers throughout Arizona who have participated in this program, as it has become one of the cleanest sections of highway out there  Proof is in the numbers.  If I recall, the first ever cleanup resulted in 150+ bags being collected.  This most recent one resulted in 66% less trash collected, or approximately 50 bags.  The Adopt-A-Highway Program is a wonderful way to volunteer time for a truly worthwhile effort.  The CITO program is something I feel is an integral part of what makes Geocaching such a good thing, especially in rural areas.  The concept follows the NFS 'Leave No Trace' program, as well as others and have been wildly successful.  I put myself on the line for the commitment because I believe that Arizona Geocachers are people who believe in such commitments, and that a number of them would dedicate time as opportunity presented itself and work as a group to help keep Arizona beautiful.  I still believe this, but know it isn't for everyone.  You also say, 'why not clean up a section of our beautiful desert instead?'  Why should it be so wrong to clean up this section?  Personally, I have cleaned up this 'beautiful desert' on countless occasions, that had nothing to do with publicity or 'getting the good name of Geocaching out there in a positive light'.  I've cleaned up areas in Bulldog Canyon numerous times, and have done so on several occasions up here as well.  Just because the CITO cleanups exist, doesn't make them a bad thing, and I really wonder where such venomous hostility came from.  Why can't one do both?  CITO cleanups on that stretch of highway are something we as cachers should be proud of, because it's certainly practicing what we preach.  We collectively imply that we support the concept of CITO, which anyone in their right minds should do anyway.  It shouldn't be a shunned concept because one single method was chosen that is overt in nature, and one that can potentially affect the opinions of those very people who could take this enjoyment away from us.  There is an area up here called simply '17 Mile'.  It's just past MP17 on a highway leading out of town here, hence its name origin.  Just a few weeks ago, the annual cleanup for this rural shooting range was held.  Had I not just started a new job <1 week earlier, I'd have driven myself out there and spent the day cleaning up other people's messes.  Not in the name of Geocaching, but in the name of volunteerism, and in order to do my part to ensure that an area I enjoy remains open for not only myself, but others who entertain themselves at this area.  No, we don't need to do the CITO cleanup along a highway to show we care.  But isn't it a great way to do so?

I think the comment made by Sport Trac/k was taken way out of context.  It's one thing to enjoy each other's company inside an air-conditioned environment where only 'fun' is the name of the game.  It's an entirely different thing to put in the physical labor outside, sometimes under extreme heat in order to improve the appearance of an area thousands see daily.  To some, it isn't fun, and that's why they don't show up.  To others, family commitments scheduled in advance take precedence.  To even more, physical limitations prevent them from participating, whereas sitting down to dinner at a restaurant is something they are able to do, not only due to timing, but environmental/physical concerns can be thrown out the window because it isn't as physically demanding.  Two hours in the sun along a stretch of asphalt truly isn't as fun as two hours on the trail.  It's not for everyone, and that's fine.  I organized/participated because I saw the need to clean it up.  I did this because it was important to me, and I wanted to make a difference.  For the time I was able to participate with everyone there, I truly enjoyed it, and felt that I did make a difference.  I'm sorry you don't feel like participating in such a program, but this is your right and I'm not going to feel any less toward you because of it.  Those who show up to help, do because they want to.  Of those who don't, some don't because they don't want to, but not all of them.  That is their right and I can't fault them for it.  But I do have a problem with faulting people because they want to, which is what I feel some of your reply...implies.  You truly should care what people in the Valley think of Geocaching, because some of those people are those who can take it away.  All that aside, an activity such as CITO cleanups are truly worthwhile.

Brian
Team A.I.

----- Original Message -----  
From: PATRICK FINLEY  
To: listserv at azgeocaching.com ; ShadowAce  
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] CITO 2005 #2

Personally, I really don't have any interest in cleaning up one of the dirtiest section of highways in the state of Az. I suspect this section of highway was available for adoption because it is such a dump. I know it's close to the landfill, and that's probably one reason why it's so littered. It's nice that geocachers are interested in cleaning up this highway, but why not clean up a section of our beautiful desert instead? Granted, Geocaching may not receive any attention from the general public by cleaning up a shooting/dumping area in the rural area, but I don't really care what others in the Valley think of geocachers. We pick up trash while caching all the time and don't need to pick up trash along an urban highway to show we care. Besides, I'd like to know what the definition of a "serious" cacher is. I really don't think that picking up urban trash 1 day for 2 hours makes somebody a "serious" geocacher. How about going out seeking and placing caches on a regular basis, instead of giving the geocaching world the definition of serious geocaching?.............Flatiron

----- Original Message -----
From: ShadowAce
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:07 AM
To: listserv at azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] CITO 2005 #2

Not to worry Gale, I think most people saw it for what it is, an
attempt to make others feel bad. I am sorry that I was unable to miss
training and drive almost 4 hours round trip to pick up trash in
Phoenix again.

I did not know that meant I was anything less of a cacher. I am sure
most of Phoenix will drive down here when we do cleanups. So...

On 4/26/05, Gale <sonoralovesmommy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> I disagree with that last statement.
>   
>  
> "Will5119 at cox.net" <will5119 at cox.net> wrote:
>  
>  
>   
>  
>  
> I would like to thank all of those who came out to help us with this CITO
> event. Only the most serious geocachers turn out for this type of cache!  
>  
> Sport Trac/k
>  
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