[Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban caches
PATRICK FINLEY
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Fri, 6 Aug 2004 05:39:56 -0700
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Another topic probably worthy of discussion. Does anybody out there belie=
ve somebody can search for and find every cache they have ever looked for=
? I don't think those cachers are fooling anybody, but themselves. I know=
everybody has probably made numerous trips to certain cache sites before=
finally finding it, but I know there are some cachers out there who have=
been to a cache site numerous times,and have never logged a no find or a=
note on the cache page. Why? As Rob said , this is a "game" and shouldn'=
t be taken as having worldly consequences. I know we hate to be stumped o=
n a hunt and will return numerous times to try and find the cache, but wi=
ll admit defeat and applaud the hider for giving us a difficult search. I=
don't feel there is any "shame " in not being able to find the cache, al=
though it can sure eat at you trying to figure out where it is. One such =
cache for us was Mini-Forest. After getting clues from AJ.JR, we still ha=
d a hard time finding it. Other teams seemed to walk up and find it immed=
iately. Go figure. But that's what makes this game so much fun. If every =
cache was a quick find, it could get a little boring out there. We don't =
really care for urban micros that much, but graldrich, AJ.JR, Sprocket, a=
nd others have placed a few that we really had fun with. Taking a hike th=
ru the desert in Spring to find an ammo box covered in rocks or stuffed i=
n a crevice is a lot more enjoyable to us, than searching under a swing s=
et or in a garbage can at Bashas, but that's just our opinion, and I'm su=
re not everybody agrees with us. I know we won't lose any sleep over it. =
Anyway, we would like to thank all the different geocachers who have plac=
ed caches out there, as we have really enjoyed getting to see different p=
laces and getting history lessons, that are a lot more fun to learn that =
reading a book in high school or college...........Flatiron and Mrs. Wran=
gler =20
----- Original Message -----
From: Delora McCalliste r
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:11 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban c=
aches
Well, I (Rob from Team Red Dog) have been reading all of the posts which =20
seem to portray very opinionated views on what Geocaching "should" be all=
=20
about.I believe that the "game" should be about whatever each team finds =20
enjoyable or gratifying about it!!! I am sure that there are no two
teams that cache for the same reasons. There have been a lot of issues =20
addressed by some teams
who have been scrutinized for there cache placement ideas, or just cache =20
placements in general.
These criticisms have come come under the guise of perpetuating the sport=
of =20
Geocaching.
They have come from teams who have very high rankings in the AZGeocaching=
=20
standings.
Some of whom are stating that they are fed up with the urban micro's or =20
un-interesting localized
caches. "It's not about the numbers!" some have said. Ironically, they ar=
e =20
the top teams in Az.
"At least in the numbers game." And I don't see anyone questioning their =20
100% find ratios?
But, it isn't about the numbers for them, RIGHT?
Our team has tried our best to keep the upper-echelon entertained with =20
creative caches.
We ourselves find it most gratifying to achieve great reviews on our "Cac=
hes =20
Placed". For us,
this is what we find exciting about the game. Bringing different, =20
challenging, creative ideas "to
the table"... so to speak.We are most definately NOT the most experienced=
=20
team to play the game of Geocaching. However, I do feel that there is NO =
ONE =20
WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME !!!
As we have been reminded many times over ,in our earlier days.
I would like to state that this is ONLY my OPINION. But I do find it =20
perplexing, that the number one team in AZ. is complaining about "NUMBERS=
" . =20
Especially having placed only 2 caches(Neither of which we have been able=
d =20
to retrieve , because of certain limitations)
We have tried to place interesting MICRO'S in rural, areas . But have com=
e =20
to find that even in these settings, there will always be direct and =20
derogatory critiquing on hard to find micro's.
If micro-caches should never have been introduced to the game, than where=
=20
would teams like
GrAldrich, AzCachmeister,Randman,AJJR and ourselves have to go with our =20
"CREATIVITY"???
After all, there are over 500 teams in AZ.
How many ways can you hide an ammo can under a pile of rocks??????
Rob.... Team Red Dog
Peaceloveandgoodhappinessstuff,
Trust in God
~Namaste'
>From: "Delora McCallister" <delora@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban =20
>caches
>Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:49:23 -0700
>
>How eloquently put Bill
>~ Team RED DOG
>
>
>
>
>Peaceloveandgoodhappinessstuff,
>Trust in God
>~Namaste'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "EvilFISH" <EvilFish@cox.net>
>>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>>To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban=
=20
>>caches
>>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:19:57 -0700
>>
>>let me add hiding a cache with the intent of it being found....
>>
>>
>>anyway
>>
>>back to work
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Bill Nolan
>> To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 6:53 AM
>> Subject: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban =20
>>caches
>>
>>
>> Ah yes, another controversy.. This is such an interesting group. =20
>>There are obviously many ways to enjoy this sport, but some participant=
s =20
>>feel threatened if you choose to enjoy it in some other way than their =20
>>favorite. We have the Urban vs Rural, Micro vs Traditional, Hiders vs =20
>>Finders, and, of course, the Numbers People vs the No-Numbers People. =
I'm =20
>>sure many of you can think of others. Then we wonder why war is so =20
>>common.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have experienced this firsthand. My wife and I choose not to log =20
>>caches, not because we think there is anything wrong with the numbers =20
>>game, but simply because we don't want to participate in that. When I =20
>>mentioned that on this list, I received several private emails (from =20
>>people still active here) that could only be described as abusive and =20
>>threatening. Part of that was because I was interviewed by a reporter =20
>>from Phoenix who knew me and knew I was active in the sport, and some h=
ere =20
>>didn't think I had the "numbers" to speak out like that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then we made our second mistake. We placed a cache. It wasn't =20
>>anything special, but the emails it brought me were even worse than the=
=20
>>first batch. How dare I place a cache when my find numbers were so low=
? =20
>>It was obvious I didn't have the experience to actually place a cache. =
=20
>>Well, I'm a fast learner. The other ammo cans I bought are still sitti=
ng, =20
>>fully stocked, out in my storage shed. I didn't want to get any more =20
>>nasty emails. Too bad. We do a lot of 4-wheeling, and I have some goo=
d =20
>>places in mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geocaching is a great sport, accessible to people of all ages and =20
>>levels of physical ability. If it fails the test of time, it will be =20
>>because of people who think their way is the right way - the ONLY right=
=20
>>way.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, we will continue to play, our way. We don't log our finds very =20
>>often, and we don't do urban caches. Since we choose to live 8 miles =20
>>outside a very small town, it shouldn't come as a surprise that we avoi=
d =20
>>cities. We also quit hiding caches, so those of you here who jumped al=
l =20
>>over us for the first one (you know who you are) - well, I'll give you =
a =20
>>win on that one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>>
>> From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com =20
>>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Gal=
e
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:21 AM
>>
>>
>> Next time you place a cache......let's get back to what made us want=
to =20
>>go
>> geocaching in the first place."
>>
>>
>>
>> I had to respond to this one.
>>
>>
>>
>> This article was written by someone who wants to return to the days =20
>>where only physically fit people have access to caches. Like it or not,=
=20
>>other people have become geocachers. Physically unfit people have =20
>>discovered an activity they can enjoy. I dont see why both cache types =20
>>cant co-exist? Ive seen some nice rural caches, as well as junky ones. =20
>>Same with urban caches
>>
>>
>>
>> "Again, lately I have really been enjoying the occasional cache I ha=
ve =20
>>found
>> as I have been really only doing wilderness hiking caches around =20
>>Sedona.
>> They are my kind of fun."
>>
>>
>>
>> Thats great Scott, but it is not my idea of fun. Feel free to play y=
our =20
>>way. I cant do those kinds of caches. Ever since falling down stairs 12=
=20
>>yrs ago, I have not had the mobility I used to have. I would like to =20
>>continue to play the game my way without feeling like an unwelcome =20
>>outsider.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don=E2=80=99t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! =20
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>http://www.azgeocaching.com
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=C2=
=AE =20
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963
____________________________________________________________
Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
Arizona's Geocaching Resource
http://www.azgeocaching.com
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Another topic =
probably worthy of discussion. Does anybody out there believe somebody ca=
n search for and find every cache they have ever looked for? I don't=
think those cachers are fooling anybody, but themselves. I know everybod=
y has probably made numerous trips to certain cache sites before finally =
finding it, but I know there are some cachers out there who have been to =
a cache site numerous times,and have never logged a no find or a note on =
the cache page. Why? As Rob said , this is a "game" and shouldn't be take=
n as having worldly consequences. I know we hate to be stumped on a hunt =
and will return numerous times to try and find the cache, but will admit =
defeat and applaud the hider for giving us a difficult search. I don't fe=
el there is any "shame " in not being able to find the cache, although it=
can sure eat at you trying to figure out where it is. One such cache for=
us was Mini-Forest. After getting clues from AJ.JR, we still had a hard =
time finding it. Other teams seemed to walk up and find it immediately. G=
o figure. But that's what makes this game so much fun. If every cache was=
a quick find, it could get a little boring out there. We don't really ca=
re for urban micros that much, but graldrich, AJ.JR, Sprocket, and others=
have placed a few that we really had fun with. Taking a hike thru the de=
sert in Spring to find an ammo box covered in rocks or stuffed in a crevi=
ce is a lot more enjoyable to us, than searching under a swing set or in =
a garbage can at Bashas, but that's just our opinion, and I'm sure not ev=
erybody agrees with us. I know we won't lose any sleep over it. Anyway, w=
e would like to thank all the different geocachers who have placed caches=
out there, as we have really enjoyed getting to see different places and=
getting history lessons, that are a lot more fun to learn that reading a=
book in high school or college...........Flatiron and Mrs. Wrangler =
;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIG=
HT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</D=
IV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B=
>From:</B> Delora McCalliste r</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>S=
ent:</B> Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:11 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt=
Arial"><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10=
pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post ab=
out micro/urban caches</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Well, I (Rob from Team Red =
Dog) have been reading all of the posts which <BR>seem to portray very op=
inionated views on what Geocaching "should" be all <BR>about.I believe th=
at the "game" should be about whatever each team finds <BR>enjoyable or g=
ratifying about it!!! I am sure that there are no two<BR>teams that cache=
for the same reasons. There have been a lot of issues <BR>addressed by s=
ome teams<BR>who have been scrutinized for there cache placement ideas, o=
r just cache <BR>placements in general.<BR>These criticisms have come com=
e under the guise of perpetuating the sport of <BR>Geocaching.<BR>They ha=
ve come from teams who have very high rankings in the AZGeocaching <BR>st=
andings.<BR>Some of whom are stating that they are fed up with the urban =
micro's or <BR>un-interesting localized<BR>caches. "It's not about the nu=
mbers!" some have said. Ironically, they are <BR>the top teams in Az.<BR>=
"At least in the numbers game." And I don't see anyone questioning their =
<BR>100% find ratios?<BR>But, it isn't about the numbers for them, RIGHT?=
<BR><BR>Our team has tried our best to keep the upper-echelon entertained=
with <BR>creative caches.<BR>We ourselves find it most gratifying to ach=
ieve great reviews on our "Caches <BR>Placed". For us,<BR>this is what we=
find exciting about the game. Bringing different, <BR>challenging, creat=
ive ideas "to<BR>the table"... so to speak.We are most definately NOT the=
most experienced <BR>team to play the game of Geocaching. However, I do =
feel that there is NO ONE <BR>WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME !!!<BR>As we have bee=
n reminded many times over ,in our earlier days.<BR><BR> I would li=
ke to state that this is ONLY my OPINION. But I do find it <BR>perplexing=
, that the number one team in AZ. is complaining about "NUMBERS" . <BR>Es=
pecially having placed only 2 caches(Neither of which we have been abled =
<BR>to retrieve , because of certain limitations)<BR>We have tried to pla=
ce interesting MICRO'S in rural, areas . But have come <BR>to find that e=
ven in these settings, there will always be direct and <BR>derogatory cri=
tiquing on hard to find micro's.<BR>If micro-caches should never have bee=
n introduced to the game, than where <BR>would teams like<BR>GrAldrich, A=
zCachmeister,Randman,AJJR and ourselves have to go with our <BR>"CREATIVI=
TY"???<BR>After all, there are over 500 teams in AZ.<BR><BR>How many ways=
can you hide an ammo can under a pile of rocks??????<BR><BR>Rob.... Team=
Red Dog<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Peaceloveandgoodhappinessstuff,<BR>Trust in G=
od<BR>~Namaste'<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>>From: "Delora McCallister"=
<delora@hotmail.com><BR>>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR=
>>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE=
: forwarded forum post about micro/urban <BR>>caches<BR>>Date: Wed,=
04 Aug 2004 16:49:23 -0700<BR>><BR>>How eloquently put Bill<BR>>=
;~ Team RED DOG<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Peaceloveandgoodha=
ppinessstuff,<BR>>Trust in God<BR>>~Namaste'<BR>><BR>><BR>>=
;<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>>From: "EvilFISH" <EvilFish@cox.ne=
t><BR>>>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>>>To: <l=
istserv@azgeocaching.com><BR>>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] RE: =
forwarded forum post about micro/urban <BR>>>caches<BR>>>Date=
: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:19:57 -0700<BR>>><BR>>>let me add hiding=
a cache with the intent of it being found....<BR>>><BR>>><BR=
>>>anyway<BR>>><BR>>>back to work<BR>>> &nbs=
p; ----- Original Message -----<BR>>> From: Bill Nolan<=
BR>>> To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>>> &n=
bsp; Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 6:53 AM<BR>>> Sub=
ject: [Az-Geocaching] RE: forwarded forum post about micro/urban <BR>>=
>caches<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Ah yes, anothe=
r controversy.. This is such an interesting group. <BR>=
>>There are obviously many ways to enjoy this sport, but some parti=
cipants <BR>>>feel threatened if you choose to enjoy it in some oth=
er way than their <BR>>>favorite. We have the Urban vs Rural,=
Micro vs Traditional, Hiders vs <BR>>>Finders, and, of course, the=
Numbers People vs the No-Numbers People. I'm <BR>>>sure many=
of you can think of others. Then we wonder why war is so <BR>>&=
gt;common.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I =
have experienced this firsthand. My wife and I choose not to log <B=
R>>>caches, not because we think there is anything wrong with the n=
umbers <BR>>>game, but simply because we don't want to participate =
in that. When I <BR>>>mentioned that on this list, I received=
several private emails (from <BR>>>people still active here) that =
could only be described as abusive and <BR>>>threatening. Par=
t of that was because I was interviewed by a reporter <BR>>>from Ph=
oenix who knew me and knew I was active in the sport, and some here <BR>&=
gt;>didn't think I had the "numbers" to speak out like that.<BR>>&g=
t;<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Then we made our secon=
d mistake. We placed a cache. It wasn't <BR>>>anything =
special, but the emails it brought me were even worse than the <BR>>&g=
t;first batch. How dare I place a cache when my find numbers were s=
o low? <BR>>>It was obvious I didn't have the experience to a=
ctually place a cache. <BR>>>Well, I'm a fast learner. =
The other ammo cans I bought are still sitting, <BR>>>fully stocked=
, out in my storage shed. I didn't want to get any more <BR>>>=
;nasty emails. Too bad. We do a lot of 4-wheeling, and I have=
some good <BR>>>places in mind.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=
;<BR>>> Geocaching is a great sport, accessible to peop=
le of all ages and <BR>>>levels of physical ability. If it fa=
ils the test of time, it will be <BR>>>because of people who think =
their way is the right way - the ONLY right <BR>>>way.<BR>>><=
BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> So, we will continue to p=
lay, our way. We don't log our finds very <BR>>>often, and we=
don't do urban caches. Since we choose to live 8 miles <BR>>>=
;outside a very small town, it shouldn't come as a surprise that we avoid=
<BR>>>cities. We also quit hiding caches, so those of you he=
re who jumped all <BR>>>over us for the first one (you know who you=
are) - well, I'll give you a <BR>>>win on that one.<BR>>><BR=
>>><BR>>><BR>>> Bill<BR>>><BR>>>=
;<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>------------------------------------=
------------------------------------------<BR>>><BR>>> &=
nbsp; From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com <BR>>>[ma=
ilto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Gale<BR>=
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:21 AM<BR>>>=
<BR>>><BR>>> Next time you place a cache......let=
's get back to what made us want to <BR>>>go<BR>>>  =
; geocaching in the first place."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>=
>> I had to respond to this one.<BR>>><BR>>>=
;<BR>>><BR>>> This article was written by someone=
who wants to return to the days <BR>>>where only physically fit pe=
ople have access to caches. Like it or not, <BR>>>other people have=
become geocachers. Physically unfit people have <BR>>>discovered a=
n activity they can enjoy. I dont see why both cache types <BR>>>ca=
nt co-exist? Ive seen some nice rural caches, as well as junky ones. <BR>=
>>Same with urban caches<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>=
;> "Again, lately I have really been enjoying the occasion=
al cache I have <BR>>>found<BR>>> as I have been =
really only doing wilderness hiking caches around <BR>>>Sedona.<BR>=
>> They are my kind of fun."<BR>>><BR>>><BR=
>>><BR>>> Thats great Scott, but it is not my ide=
a of fun. Feel free to play your <BR>>>way. I cant do those kinds o=
f caches. Ever since falling down stairs 12 <BR>>>yrs ago, I have n=
ot had the mobility I used to have. I would like to <BR>>>continue =
to play the game my way without feeling like an unwelcome <BR>>>out=
sider.<BR>><BR>>___________________________________________________=
______________<BR>>Don=E2=80=99t just search. Find. Check out the new =
MSN Search! <BR>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/dir=
ect/01/<BR>><BR>>__________________________________________________=
__________<BR>>Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR=
>>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<BR>>http://=
listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching<BR>><BR>>A=
rizona's Geocaching Resource<BR>>http://www.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>__=
_______________________________________________________________<BR>Is you=
r PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee=C2=AE <B=
R>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963<=
BR><BR>____________________________________________________________<BR>Az=
-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>To edit your settin=
g, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<BR>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/ma=
ilman/listinfo/az-geocaching<BR><BR>Arizona's Geocaching Resource<BR>http=
://www.azgeocaching.com<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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