[Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds.

Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:29:43 -0700

This is a good point.  Had we not had a mentor (Tamo) introduce us to
geocaching, I can not say that we would have immediately recognized the
importance of communication in this sport.

As I stated earlier, I believe it is critical that people notify the
cache owner if they made an honest effort to locate a cache
unsuccessfully.  Whether, it is logged as a "no-find", or just a note,
communicating this can only improve the awareness of the status of a
cache.

I know that I had stated that if I were to drive up to a cache location
and quickly conclude that searching for the cache would be useless based
on how populated the area was (or other reasons), that it would be
pointless for us to log or make a note that we did not find the cache.
Why log "We drove up to the cache site but there were too many people
there. We could not see the cache from the car, so we moved on"?   This
type of log seemed pointless to me.  I must retract that statement
because, as Tamo stated, not logging this type of experience does in
fact disallow the cache owner the knowledge that someone is interested
in finding their cache.

A perfect example of this, for us, was when Highpointer made a note on
one of our caches stating that he did not find the cache because the
site was too heavily populated at the time and was in a spot that would
not allow him to be inconspicuous.  We enjoyed just knowing that another
team was interested in locating our cache, and have also been
reconsidering the exact location based on that note.  It is a courtesy
that Tamo's Clan'Destiny, Highpointer and other teams have performed
that we really appreciate; a courtesy that we will make an effort to
perform in the future.

Aus Dem Kasten

-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Marc
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 8:34 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds.

Some cachers, like us, have had the luxury of mentors to help us get to 
know the ropes. I know from e-mails and logs that I have had on my 
caches that not all do. I think we have all been good about educating 
them on what to do, but if they don't belong to this forum or make 
contact with other cachers, they simply will not know. Once I had a 
cacher click the "archive this cache" cause they could not find it. As 
it turned out, they had no idea what that really meant. After I e-mailed

them back asking they why, they realized the cache was really there and 
they just missed it, and now know how to properly log.

As a cache owner, I have made it a point to respond back to each e-mail 
or log entry that needs attention. I figure if they are courteous enough

to contact me, I should help support and encourage them to continue 
doing it for others. I have found it very helpful to know  when a 
problem may exist. I can then go check on my cache and make sure all is 
well and let them know the status. If some contact is not made, then how

can we expect cache owners to keep there caches in good shape.

As far as cachers that don't log a note, no find, or contact the cache 
owner, on caches that they don't think they spend enough time doing, 
they are not allowing the cache owner the knowledge that someone is 
interested in finding their cache. Some cachers do and I think that is 
great! I make sure that the cache is there and in good shape for them. I

think this helps increase the over all caching experience for all.

Tamo's Clan'Destiny

Aus Dem Kasten wrote:

>	As a cache owner I just like to be informed if someone has made
>an effort to find the cache and did not succeed.  
>	Team Seeking posted a "no-find" on one of our caches, and when I
>checked on it, the container was in fact missing.  I found out later
>that another team had tried to locate it, but never logged the
"no-find"
>or posted a note.  This was a bit frustrating.  If this team had taken
>the time to do so, Team Seeking wouldn't have wasted time trying to
>locate something that was not there.
>	If teams, for some reason, would rather post a note than log a
>"no-find", I'm all for it. It really does not bother me if it is logged
>as a "no-find" or posted as a note.  As long as the cache owner and
>caching community are made aware.
>
>Aus Dem Kasten
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Pat
>Thompson
>Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:27 PM
>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds.
>
>We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No 
>Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by 
>e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she
could
>
>determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed 
>finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined 
>that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching 
>community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which

>he did in a very short period of time.
>
>In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually 
>exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no 
>amount of hunting is going to find it.
>
>In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually 
>renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume

>are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No
Find"
>
>as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in
the
>
>first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No 
>Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. 
>Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my 
>view that the person who reported it should be entitled to  delete the 
>"No Find" from his/her log.
>
>However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical 
>value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, 
>the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was 
>found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or 
>replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache 
>was actually missing.
>
>I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of

>priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest
of
>
>establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of 
>"No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy
with
>
>the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this 
>distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose.
>
>Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the 
>geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime.
>
>Team Seeking
>Pat & Jan Thompson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Team Seeking
>Pat Thompson
>
>
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