[Az-Geocaching] thoughts about urban geocaches...

[Brian Cluff]

> I went out this afternoon to run some errands and decided to go for a few
> urban caches. I drove by 3 of them today and didnt even stop to do them. I
> think I know right where they are at.. but, didnt stop as there was just way
> to many people around to go for them. They were all in city parks. The ASU
> Research Park one had not only people around, but, there are buildings
> around it with windows that you cant see in.. but, you know they are looking
> out at you!

You have to take into account that it is a holiday and there will be a lot
more people in these urban areas.  When I have done urban caches in the
past, most places were usually almost totally deserted.  If they arent,
well thats what makes an urban cache difficult.  You might have to come
back later when there is less people or at least few enough that you can
grab it and place it while nobody is looking.
 Also, except for the first urban cache (Metro Pecan).  All the urban
caches that I have been too have been extremely well hidden.  You could be
right on top of it and hardly see it.  If you weren't a geocacher actually
looking for something in the general area, you probably wouldn't find it.

> property around the cache to its very original state. In otherwords, dont
> step on bushes for one. I have seen several caches that have alot of bushes
> around them trampled on. That is not only a sure sign of where a cache is

I haven't seen too much of this.  When I have seen trampled bushes there
were a lot of other bushes in the area that were also trampled.  My guess
at the time was that it was peoples dogs, or kids playing in the bushes as
their were bushes trampled way too far away from the cache to be a
reasonalbe place for people to be looking.  As for nonurban caches,
the most I have seen is foot prints.

> geocaching families. But, how about limiting the time these caches are
> stashed? Eventually, they will be found by a non-geocacher and will either
> be stolen or damaged. The logs need to be recovered to prove that someone
> actually was there and didnt just log their visit to move them up in ranking
> or just show they have X number of caches. Where they really there? No way
> to tell unless the log is recovered. (I do think we are all honest about
> that though, afterall, this IS just for fun).

There really isn't a good reason to "cheat".  There really isn't any
recongnition for getting a higher number that someone else other than a
couple of congratulations when you hit certain mile stones.  There is also
a bit of check in the system where other people go to the caches after
you have logged them, sooner of later people would figure out that you
hadn't actually been there.
	I would hate to loose on a cache that I had hidden.  After it's
filled up, it's your little keepsake of your cache, but other than that,
the most important thing when your all done is that you did it.

> Also, I think that all geocaches should use 'official' geocaching cases.
> These appear to be the small green ammo boxes with the official geocaching
> stickers on the side and the paperwork contained within explaining what it
> is. I am starting to see several caches that were contained in pint size
> paint cans and tupperware containers and such. If someone saw this.. it
> could be percieved as trash (litter) and we all want to keep our lands
> clean. The official ammo boxes look much more professional. These ammo cases
> cost very little and can be had at a military surplus store or from a dealer
> of geocache merchandise. If you archive your urban cache after say 30 days..
> you will be more likely to still have it there to be retrieved and the same
> case used for another cache.

I have to dissagree.  In my opinion the amo cases make the best quality
case to allow your cache to weather the elements the best, but any
container that is water proof is fine as long as it is clearly marked on
the outside what it is, be it by an official sticker or sharpee.

I'll have to go look though the archived caches, but I have a feeling that
an amo can is much more likely to be stolen than a tupperware container.
You have to relise that amo cans are really cool when it comes to kids or
teenagers.  If they happen across on they are very likely to take it.
They are very cheap, but to a kid that probably doesn't have any money,
way to get to the store, or even knowledge of what store to get them to,
they might as well be worth $100 each.  I have heard of a couple of caches
that had the contents dumped out and the amo can stolen.... at least they
left the cache contents

> is there for and not disrupt it if they should stumble upon it. I know if I
> saw a paint can in a nice clean local park, I wouldnt think to highly of who
> ever put it there. I know what it is there for as I am a geocacher and see
> no problem with it. I am just trying to put myself in a non cachers shoes
> and considering their thoughts. On the other hand... if I saw a nice clean
> small ammo box with a nice clean 'official geocache' sticker on the side.. I
> would perceive it as something of higher value.

If people are hiding caches in public places out in the open, they deserve
to have them stolen.  Putting them in an amo can won't extend their life
at all.  Some people might read what it is and just decide to move it 50
feet of so just to be a jerk like with our freemont saddle cache, and with
that cache it was extremely well hidden, luckily we found it and returned
it to it's origional location.
There is a certain amount of luck to hiding a cache, someone can put it
out in the open and have it last for years and someone else can pretty
much completely bury the cache in the middle of nowhere and have it
stolen a week later.  When that happens we just archive the cache and move
on.

> I am not trying to preach anything here. I am sure this is stuff most of us
> have already heard. These are just thoughts from a new member of the
> geocaching family. I now have 15 finds ranging from easy and quick urban
> caches to hard to get to caches like the Lone Pine cache on top of 4 peaks.
> Myself and my teamies are enjoying our new found hobby and want to see the
> sport grow and keep a positive image. I think most will agree with me on
> this. We have been geocaching now since the first week of January and
> greatly enjoying the excercise the sport has brought us! (I really need
> it!). ;)

Welcome to geocaching, and the mailing list.  Let us know if there is
anything that we (team snaptek) can do to make your geocaching adventures
a little easier.

> Thanks for allowing me to express my thoughts on the subject.

Thats what this mailing list is for.. thoughts, information, rants, ideas,
announcments, tips, getting sevral teams together for joint adventures,
repetedly saying you don't like the stats <grin>, bouncing ideas off us
for new stats... anything...

Brian Cluff
Team Snaptek