Re: [Az-Geocaching] Re:Cheater/Not Cheater

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Author: Aus Dem Kasten
Date:  
To: listserv
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Re:Cheater/Not Cheater
skydad (The Lunch Club) wrote:

>Enough already!! Truly amazing that there is even a topic on "cheating" in
>regards to geocaching. Even more amazing that so many people care.


Thanks for the feedback Skydad, but you might want to skip reading this email.

For the cachers that were interested in this topic:

I followed Rand's advice and contacted Marc with questions regarding his logs on two of our caches.
Marc responded curious to know why I requested the information. I then explained the situation in more detail and told him about the listserv so that he could be included in the conversation. I informed him of how I was a bit skeptical when it came to his finds as were some other cachers.

Marc has since sent me two emails describing our two caches. The descriptions were detailed enough for me to be confident in believing that he did in fact visit the caches and chooses not to sign the logbooks.

So as for cheating, I personally do not think that this is an issue. Not signing the logbooks will be an issue each cache owner will have to decide for themselves. In this case I have chosen to leave the logs, but in the furture I may add in my cache descriptions that signing the logbook is required to receive credit for the cache, as I enjoy trying to maintain an accurate log.

Marc - Thank you for being helpful and understanding.

Jon
Aus Dem Kasten

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:05 PM
>Subject: Az-Geocaching digest, Vol 1 #1210 - 6 msgs
>
>
>
>
>>Send Az-Geocaching mailing list submissions to
>>
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Beach Reading (Andrew Weissman, Psy.D.)
>> 2. Cheater / Not Cheater (Marc Leitermann)
>> 3. Re: Cheater / Not Cheater (Tim Giron)
>> 4. RE: Beach Reading (Team Tierra Buena)
>> 5. Re: Cheater / Not Cheater (Brian Cluff)
>> 6. RE: Cheater / Not Cheater (Andrew Ayre)
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 1
>>From: "Andrew Weissman, Psy.D." <>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Beach Reading
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:10:55 -0700
>>Reply-To:
>>
>><html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
>><P>Steve,</P>
>><P>Do you know the author of the book?</P>
>><P>Andrew<BR><BR></P></DIV>
>><DIV>
>><DIV></DIV>
>><DIV></DIV>
>><DIV></DIV>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Team Tierra Buena"
>>
>>
><></DIV>
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To:
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;To: "Arizona Geocaching"
>>
>>
><>
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Beach Reading
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:17:31 -0700
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;The exchange between the "Andrews" about longitude suddenly
>>
>>
>reminded me
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;of a book I read in the years BC (Before Caching). It has
>>
>>
>the rather
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;long title of Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius
>>
>>
>Who Solved the
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time, and it's written
>>
>>
>by Dava Sobel.
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;The title pretty much sums it up. It might not sound like
>>
>>
>interesting
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;reading, but I couldn't put it down. and that's before I
>>
>>
>even knew what
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;a GPSr is. Could be a good one for you to take on your
>>
>>
>summer vacation.
>
>
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Steve
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;Team Tierra Buena
>><DIV></DIV>&gt;
>><DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 with <a
>>
>>
>href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJENUS/2740??PS=">e-mail virus protection service:
></a> 2 months FREE*</html>
>
>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 2
>>To:
>>From: "Marc Leitermann" <>
>>Cc:
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:18:19 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cheater / Not Cheater
>>Reply-To:
>>
>>
>>To all who worry:
>>
>>I would like to thank Jon (Aus Dem Kasten) for telling me about this
>>
>>
>thread on alleged cheating. Here's my thoughts, for what they are worth.
>
>
>>Looking thru the national site, I found this:
>>
>>"What are the rules in Geocaching?
>>Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very
>>
>>
>simple:
>
>
>>1. Take something from the cache
>>2. Leave something in the cache
>>3. Write about it in the logbook "
>>
>>Looking at the on-line log entries for several caches, including several I
>>
>>
>have logged, you can find any combination of these three 'rules'. Several
>clearly state they did not take something. Well, how is that really
>different from not writing in the logbook? I take the use of the word 'rule'
>above as meaning a suggested action. Certainly nothing engraved in stone.
>
>
>>Signing a log is definite proof the person was at the cache. However, the
>>
>>
>reverse is not proof, of anything. If someone (certainly not me!) wants to
>list a lot of caches he or she has not actually found, so what? Afraid of
>someone 'headed for the last page of the stats' (as AZFastFeet states)
>before you? I'm at a modest 270+, and am working to up that number, just as
>I suppose all of you are. And although my biggest thrill is actually
>finding the cache, I also enjoy looking at the numbers.
>
>
>>I generally cache with two different friends - one who loves to dig thru
>>
>>
>the cache and see what's there, and write in the book. However, he quite
>often does not take and leave, since he forgets to bring something to
>exchange.
>
>
>>The other's point of view is like mine - "he sounds weird because I am
>>
>>
>sure that lots of people just enjoy finding the cache (like us), not looking
>at the contents or signing a log - he is missing the point of the game (its
>suppose to be fun)." (This person is not even registered with the national
>site).
>
>
>>BTW, I list only caches I find. Anything I cannot find (and there are a
>>
>>
>number)I do not list, nor do I make notes, etc. This is my personal
>preference, so that when I look at my on-line listings, they are not
>cluttered up.
>
>
>>Do I plan on changing? I do not believe I will. I'm out to have fun.
>>
>>Happy caching, wherever you are ....
>>
>>Marc
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
>>The most personalized portal on the Web!
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 3
>>From: Tim Giron <>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Cheater / Not Cheater
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:33:01 -0400
>>Reply-To:
>>
>>Um, I just wanted to clarify that my tagline was in reference to the fact
>>
>>
>that I haven't been caching very much lateley and therefore I am headed in
>the other direction!
>
>
>>"Afraid of someone 'headed for the last page of the stats' (as AZFastFeet
>>
>>
>states) before you?"
>
>
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 4
>>From: "Team Tierra Buena" <>
>>To: <>
>>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Beach Reading
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:58:48 -0700
>>Reply-To:
>>
>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>
>>------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C325C0.857D8450
>>Content-Type: text/plain;
>>charset="us-ascii"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
>>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of
>>Andrew Weissman, Psy.D.
>>Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:11 AM
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Beach Reading
>>
>>
>>
>>Steve,
>>
>>Do you know the author of the book?
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>>Dava Sobel.
>>
>>Steve
>>Team Tierra Buena
>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>Az-Geocaching mailing list To edit your
>>setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>>Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com
>>
>>------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C325C0.857D8450
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>>charset="us-ascii"
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>>charset=3Dus-ascii">
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>><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:
>>10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
>>
>><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:
>>10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
>>
>><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
>>0in 4.0pt'>
>>
>><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
>>font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
>><b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
>>
>>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <b><span
>>style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Andrew Weissman, =
>>Psy.D.<br>
>><b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
>>size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thursday, May
>> 29, 2003</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
>>font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>8:11 =
>>AM</span></font><font size=3D2
>>face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
>><b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
>><br>
>><b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
>>[Az-Geocaching] Beach
>>Reading</span></font></p>
>>
>><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:
>>12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
>>
>><div>
>>
>><div>
>>
>><p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Steve,</span></font></p>
>>
>><p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Do you
>>know the author of the book?</span></font></p>
>>
>><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
>>Roman"><span
>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Andrew</span></font></p>
>>
>><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
>>face=3DArial><span
>>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dava =
>>Sobel.</span></font></p>
>>
>><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
>>face=3DArial><span
>>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Steve<br>
>>Team Tierra Buena</span></font></p>
>>
>></div>
>>
>></div>
>>
>></div>
>>
>></div>
>>
>></body>
>>
>></html>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>Az-Geocaching mailing list
>>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>>
>>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>>http://www.azgeocaching.com
>>------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C325C0.857D8450--
>>
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 5
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:20:45 -0700
>>From: Brian Cluff <>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Cheater / Not Cheater
>>Reply-To:
>>
>>Marc Leitermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"What are the rules in Geocaching?
>>>Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very
>>>
>>>
>simple:
>
>
>>>1. Take something from the cache
>>>2. Leave something in the cache
>>>3. Write about it in the logbook "
>>>
>>>
>>>BTW, I list only caches I find. Anything I cannot find (and there are a
>>>
>>>
>number)I do not list, nor do I make notes, etc. This is my personal
>preference, so that when I look at my on-line listings, they are not
>cluttered up.
>
>
>>>Do I plan on changing? I do not believe I will. I'm out to have fun.
>>>
>>>
>>I think you seem to be missing the point of the person hiding the cache.
>>If I just wanted my stuff to sit in the desert and didn't care if I knew
>> for a fact that people were visiting it I would just throw it out the
>>window. The logs are what makes the cache worth hiding. And I don't
>>think you will find anyone that will argue that the log IN the cache
>>isn't the authoritative list of people that have been to the cache.
>>Especially since there are usually 1/3 or more cachers listed in the
>>paper logs than there are on the online version.
>>
>>Brian Cluff
>>Team Snaptek
>>
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>Message: 6
>>From: "Andrew Ayre" <>
>>To: <>
>>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Cheater / Not Cheater
>>Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:38:40 -0700
>>Reply-To:
>>
>>I think another point that you should understand Marc, is that it is
>>generally regarded as open to the cache hider the exact rules on recording
>>
>>
>a
>
>
>>find for that specific cache. A lot of cache hiders when comparing the
>>
>>
>paper
>
>
>>log to the online log will delete your online log (including me - I will
>>Email the person first to find out what is going on), so you are running
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>risk of having your online record altered/deleted in places. Is that what
>>you want for not spending literally 30 seconds to write at least your name
>>on a piece of paper? If you follow the numbers game then I wouldn't think
>>so. If you are happy with that and just having fun finding then I don't
>>
>>
>see
>
>
>>a problem with you not signing the log. Just don't start complaining when
>>people delete your online logs.
>>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
>>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Brian
>>Cluff
>>Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:21 AM
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Cheater / Not Cheater
>>
>>
>>Marc Leitermann wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"What are the rules in Geocaching?
>>>Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very
>>>
>>>
>>simple:
>>
>>
>>>1. Take something from the cache
>>>2. Leave something in the cache
>>>3. Write about it in the logbook "
>>>
>>>
>>>BTW, I list only caches I find. Anything I cannot find (and there are a
>>>
>>>
>>number)I do not list, nor do I make notes, etc. This is my personal
>>preference, so that when I look at my on-line listings, they are not
>>cluttered up.
>>
>>
>>>Do I plan on changing? I do not believe I will. I'm out to have fun.
>>>
>>>
>>I think you seem to be missing the point of the person hiding the cache.
>>If I just wanted my stuff to sit in the desert and didn't care if I knew
>> for a fact that people were visiting it I would just throw it out the
>>window. The logs are what makes the cache worth hiding. And I don't
>>think you will find anyone that will argue that the log IN the cache
>>isn't the authoritative list of people that have been to the cache.
>>Especially since there are usually 1/3 or more cachers listed in the
>>paper logs than there are on the online version.
>>
>>Brian Cluff
>>Team Snaptek
>>
>>____________________________________________________________
>>Az-Geocaching mailing list
>>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>>
>>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>>http://www.azgeocaching.com
>>
>>
>>
>>--__--__--
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Az-Geocaching mailing list
>>
>>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>>
>>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>>http://www.azgeocaching.com
>>
>>
>>
>>End of Az-Geocaching Digest
>>
>>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Az-Geocaching mailing list
>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>http://www.azgeocaching.com
>
>


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