[Az-Geocaching] Re: Who Manages What an IDEA

[Regan L Smith]

If we can find it I will personally save you a can]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koch, Dan" <Dan.Koch@eclipsys.com>
To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Re: Who Manages What an IDEA


> Sounds like a good idea.  If you can't take the mountain to...
>
> But the real question is will there be Mr Pibb or Orange Crush available?
:)
>
> LazyK - Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Regan L Smith [mailto:buggers@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:10 PM
> To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re: Who Manages What an IDEA
>
>
> let's not forget what else I was told " This park is not here for your
> little game" this of all statements have me pissed and I am going to
report
> this Officer and I just forgot his name.....
>
> here is a thought and Steve if you would also give it a thought
>
> Lets have an EVENT CACHE AT USERY PARK, since it is near Bulldog and the
> Tonto maybe a Ranger can come and talk... I will contact Usery while
> reporting the officer with a personal agenda but will also find out what
it
> will take to reserve a Ramada and fire up the grill, I am thinking of
> sponsoring it hot dogs/ hamburger buns , should get some soda from work
and
> then let everyone bring the fixings and extras this would also be a good
> time to bring newbie's because with officials there we could hear first
hand
> the rules...... and maybe wishful thinking an ammo can for a cache to be
> hidden......
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RopingThe Wind" <arizcowboy@hotmail.com>
> To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 8:22 PM
> Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Who Manages What
>
>
> >
> >
> > >From: "Team Tierra Buena" <TeamTierraBuena@earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> > >To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Who Manages What
> > >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:45:11 -0700
> > >
> > >Regan,
> > >
> > >I'm glad I read your log before I replied. Maricopa County Parks are
> > >not "national forest", as you wrote below (you had me going there for
> > >a
> couple
> > >of minutes!).
> > >
> > >I think what it comes down to is that it is illegal to enter a
> > >Maricopa County Park for ANY reason without paying the "user fee".
> > >But the MCP representative at the land management meeting last month
> > >did say that
> they
> > >were planning to revise their policy to make it much more restrictive
> > >on the placement of geocaches than it has been. That saddened me,
> > >because I thought
> > >MCP's "two mile rule" was a great compromise.
> > >
> > >Coincidentally, I got a private email today from someone who wrote me
> that
> > >our "Grandma Sarah's Cache", which is in the McDowell Mountain
> > >Regional Park (part of MCP), may be missing and that a ranger there
> > >told him "it better not be there". But as of this morning, when I was
> > >checking it for
> something
> > >else, their "old" policy is still on the web site
> > >(http://www.maricopa.gov/parks/news/). What worries me now is that
> > >they
> may
> > >have issued a new policy to the park staff, but haven't yet bothered
> > >to make it available to the general public. I hope my fear is
> > >unfounded.
> > >
> > >Steve
> > >
> > >Team Tierra Buena
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Regan's log is rather incomplete. I would like to tell the whole
> > story. I was with Regan today. We went out for two caches. I had
> > already found
> ARRGG
> > cache a long time ago. But, Regan had not. We were then going to go do
> > K9 Conclusion Cache, which I had not yet attempted. Now, with Regan
> > driving
> and
> > I in the passenger seat, we pulled up and parked on the side of
> > Usuarry
> Pass
> > Rd, just about due east of the AARRGG Cache. There are no 'no parking'
> signs
> > along this stretch of the road. Also, there were no 'park boundary'
> > signs that we saw in the vicinity of the hill that AARRGG Cache is on.
> > There was
> a
> > fence line south of the AARRGG Cache that did have a 'park boundary'
> > sign posted on it. This fence ended it's north run along the side of
> > the
> roadway
> > and then turned toward the west. We never crossed a fence or 'park
> boundary'
> > sign on our way from the roadway (were we parked) to the cache. We
> > arrive
> at
> > the cache and I look back to see a park ranger at Regan's car. After
> logging
> > his find, we head back to the car. The park ranger greeted us and
> > asked
> for
> > ID and all that good stuff. He then told us we were tresspassing. He
> > said this was private property. I explained that the park boundary
> > fence line terminates just south of here and then turns west. At no
> > time, did we
> cross
> > a fence to get to the cache nor pass a sign stating this was private
> > property or a park boundary. We then explained to the ranger what we
> > were doing back there and that we were geocaching and showed him the
> > printout
> of
> > the cache page. OH WAIT! We just said GEOCACHE... When we said we were
> > geocaching the park ranger said "oh dont tell me you were geocaching
> > or I will arrest you right now". Those were his very words. So, Regan
> > said.. oh we were just hiking :) At any rate, after a few minutes of
> > getting the 5th degree, the officer was 'kind' enough to let us off
> > the hook. But, we did spend several minutes talking about geocaching.
> > The park ranger said "geocaching is illegal on Maricopa County Park
> > lands". I told him that I recall reading of the regulations outlining
> > geocaching on Maricopa County Parks web site concerning where
> > geocaches can be placed. He said there
> were
> > no laws or guidelines written for geocaching in the county parks and
> > that
> it
> > is illegal to cache on county parks land. Now we all know this is not
> true,
> > since it is outlined on the County Parks web site.
> >
> > At any rate... we were apparently on County Park land and we were
> > indeed trespassing. But, since it was decided we werent geocaching, he
> > let us go. :/  I again explained that I would have never gone to the
> > cache if I knew
> I
> > was doing so unlawfully.
> >
> > Later in our conversations, the park ranger said that we could
> > basically
> do
> > anything out there as long as we had a permit (do I hear a
> > contradiction here???). A permit costs like $4 or $5 bucks to enter
> > the park. That's all fine, but I had no idea we were in the park or we
> > would have purchased a permit! Later yet in our conversations with the
> > ranger, he also told us it was illegal to geocache on National Forest
> > land.
> >
> > WELL, DAMN.. I REALLY AM CONFUSED NOW!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > The park ranger (police officer) also said that he could arrest us for
> > geocaching and tresspassing and also seize our home computers and
> > house
> and
> > everything else. We listened to him, spoke our peace and we were then
> > on o
> ur
> > way. We did have conversation for several minutes and the whole
> conversation
> > was low toned and we were respectful of the park rangers position.
> > After shaking hands, we were on our way.
> >
> > I don't know what to make of this whole thing.....
> >
> > Maricopa County Parks says it is ok to geocache as long as we follow
> certain
> > guidelines, guidelines which are outlined on their website. This park
> ranger
> > says we can't. Which is it?!?! What about National Forest land? I have
> gone
> > 28 years of my life without any kind of negative run in's with the law
> until
> > I got into geocaching. Since I began geocaching, I have been
> > approached numerous times by city police, park rangers, and even a
> > police detective about what I was doing and sometimes the legality of
> > what I was doing
> would
> > be questioned. Of course, most all of these encounters where while
> > doing urban caches. On this speciic above mentioned cache, we were
> > seeking out
> an
> > ammo can in a wilderness type setting (county park as it were). I
> > never, ever thought I would deal with these kinds of issues while
> > geocaching in
> the
> > wilderness. I never have been a fan of urban caching. I always enjoyed
> doing
> > the wilderness type caches. Now, I cant do that without being
> > questioned
> by
> > authorities. I am not sure I like this game much anymore. Like most
> anything
> > we do in life, it becomes less and less fun as it becomes more
> > restrictive through government regulation. Is this the goal of our
> > government? To control the people until we have no freedom to do the
> > things we enjoy?!
> Some
> > things in life, we must deal with this government regulations as it
> > may concern something we do for a living. However, geocaching is not
> > how I
> make
> > my living, it is merely a hobby. I simply don't care to deal with
> > these kinds of issues anymore and I at this time am contemplating
> > standing aside to guage where this hobby/sport of geocaching is going.
> > I don't want to
> play
> > this game anymore unless I can have an actual paper copy of every land
> > agency's regulations concerning geocaching. This way, I know exactly
> > where my boundaries are and I can be 100% sure I am doing so lawfully.
> >
> > I deal with landowner issues in another hobby of mine. That hobby is
> > also how I make my living. I am constantly dealing with city ordinance
> > issues
> and
> > the like. It is regulated on a local, state and federal level. I have
> > had meetings with many different east valley municipalities'
> > concerning regulations and ordinances. I have even met with the
> > chief's of police in
> a
> > couple of these cities. I just have no desire to deal with these
> > issues in any other areas. I have 800 cache finds in less than two
> > years and
> obviously
> > enjoy the hobby very much. But, I don't like feeling like a criminal
> > everytime I go seeking out a cache... even in a wilderness
> > environment. It just isn't fun.
> >
> > Scott
> > Team Ropingthewind
> >
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