[Az-Geocaching] Law Enforcement, Geocaching, Anarchy and futons

Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:18:16 -0700

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I swear, this is going to keep me busy for eons just responding to the =
various posts, along with the refuting anarchy as a good alternative.

First, let's discuss litter.

13-1603. Criminal littering or polluting; classification

A. A person commits criminal littering or polluting if such person =
without lawful authority does any of the following:

1. Throws, places, drops or permits to be dropped on public property or =
property of another which is not a lawful dump any litter, destructive =
or injurious material which he does not immediately remove.

2. Discharges or permits to be discharged any sewage, oil products or =
other harmful substances into any waters or onto any shorelines within =
the state.=20

3. Dumps any earth, soil, stones, ores or minerals on any land.

B. Criminal littering or polluting is punished as follows:

1. A class 6 felony if a knowing violation of subsection A in which the =
amount of litter or other prohibited material or substance exceeds three =
hundred pounds in weight or one hundred cubic feet in volume or is done =
in any quantity for a commercial purpose.

2. A class 1 misdemeanor if the act is not punishable under paragraph 1 =
of this subsection and involves placing any destructive or injurious =
material on or within fifty feet of a highway, beach or shoreline of any =
body of water used by the public.

3. A class 2 misdemeanor if not punishable under paragraph 1 or 2 of =
this subsection.=20

Unless the geocache in question weighs greater than 300lbs or consumes =
100 cubic feet of earth and is commercial in nature, it is NOT a felony. =
 It's merely a class 2 misdemeanor.  Regan, hopefully Scott or yourself =
will remember the name or at least the badge.  If not, you can still =
report the incident, citing the day/time/location, and through their =
records and investigation can figure out who it is.  IA doesn't screw =
around when stuff like this comes down the pipe, TRUST ME.

Officer pay.

DPS pays $36,096 annually for a new officer. To reach the =
mid-point/maximum levels takes years. Annual increases don't come =
unless the legislature chooses to allow it, which doesn't happen. We =
aren't like city agencies who get their money from themselves. We're in =
the pit fighting every other agency/entity for our minute slice of the =
pie. It is a fact that <1% of the annual budget goes to DPS, and yet =
Napolitano continues to squeeze dollars out of us under the banner of a =
balanced budget.

Mesa PD starts their officers at $36,816 annually.

You're right, they are well paid...if this were Somalia.

Safe society.

So, what I gather from this is, the homicide suspect one of my officers =
went into foot pursuit with along Loop101 a few weeks ago (with a $2 =
million bond) should be allowed to go free.  Nevermind the fact that he =
shot/killed someone, but also had warrants for robbery and weapons =
charges, all out of California.  Or the guy who carjacks your car while =
high on methamphetamine should be allowed to take it home and enjoy his =
spoils until he gets bored with it and torches it somewhere in the =
desert with the body of a hooker he killed for drug money in the trunk.  =

Daily, I run drivers who regularly show suspended or revoked for any =
number of moving violations (the worst was suspended more than 27x).  =
More and more I am seeing numerous DUI convictions for regular DUI, =
extreme DUI and felony DUI.  These are people that will make a career =
out of jail because they no longer care about who they kill or what =
overpass they careen into while on their latest drinking binge.  =
Following the logic I've seen here recently, these people should be =
allowed to continue drinking/driving, putting everyone they come near at =
risk of serious injury, or death because we don't need cops.  I don't =
know if you've been following what the Tribune has been printing every =
Sunday, but DUI is a serious problem.  We are only able to catch so much =
of it, but one of those drivers we arrest may have been the one that had =
their targets set on your vehicle at 1am on a remote 2-lane highway and =
snuffed out your life before it was due.  True, a majority of the public =
follows MOST of the laws, but the population who chooses not to is ever =
increasing.  Don't even get me started on the UDAs who are the stand-out =
majority of hit-and-run suspects on just our freeways.  Quite frankly, =
officers get the bad rap by default.  Unlike firefighters, the public =
dreads the sight of  red/blues in their mirror(s) while driving down the =
road talking on the cellphone while playing solitaire on a PDA and =
eating a bagel.  It's hardly ever a good situation when an officer shows =
up on your doorstep.  The power to take someone's freedom is something =
that I believe is resented by some of the masses.

[quote]

Law enforcement is a thankless job, but I believe that the cops bring a =
lot=20
of that upon themselves.  We seem to forget that our safety should fall =
on=20
our own shoulders first and that we should be responsible for our own =
safety.

[/quote]

I disagree.  It's the apathetic nature of so much of society that causes =
this.  Nobody looks out for their neighbors anymore.  Everyone comes =
home from work, drives straight into the garage and walks into the house =
without ever setting foot in the sunlight, immediately closing the =
garage door.  Kids hardly play out front, and don't go to the park =
unless the parents are around.  Yet few of them actually talk and get to =
know one another.  I've had many in my neighborhood say how much they =
would to see a patrol car parked in a driveway on a regular basis, =
because it is a strong crime deterrent.  When was the last time someone =
told you they leave their doors unlocked at night?

[quote]

I never buy the argument that we don't have enough cops on the streets, =
but=20
I do see a big problem with the training that our current cops get, or I =

should say the lack of training they get.  I deputy friend of mine down=20
here in Pima was telling me that there is a 1 year waiting list to get =
time=20
to shot on the county range unless you are doing your qualification =
shooting.

[/quote]

I cordially invite you to spend a shift with me in OpComm at DPS =
Headquarters.  If that doesn't change your belief that there aren't =
enough cops on the streets (in this case, the metro-Phoenix highways), =
nothing will.  Drop me an e-mail and I'll arrange it.  Pima county is =
hardly the barometer for the entire state.  It's the fault of the agency =
they work for that this is such an issue, and lack of proper =
policy/procedure that allows it to continue.  Shooting is only a portion =
of the training they receive.  DPS requires and enforces the policy that =
its officers go to the range every 3-months to qualify.  ALEA is an =
intense 16-week academy that grills you on many, many things, to prepare =
you for the streets.  Each department has their own policies on =
subsequent training before beginning FTO.  DPS at last word was a =
12-week Advanced Basic in addition to the 16-week ALEA.  In all reality, =
the training DPS provides is hands-down the best in the state.  On top =
of these two periods, there is a 12-week FTO program before being sent =
out on your own to work traffic.  My training for Dispatcher was =
15-months. =20

Back to the real issue...harassment of Geocachers.

That was the original issue, but the case o' worms was opened when such =
a harshly toned attack on police officers (LE in general) was sent out.

Being questioned by an officer while geocaching doesn't constitute =
harassment.  Officers are trained to spot suspicious activity, and in =
all honesty some of the searching we do in looking for caches does look =
truly suspicious.  My most recent contact by an officer was in Tempe, =
who saw my truck with the lights on near 52nd St/Broadway at Futte o' =
the Butte.  He pulled up and asked what I was doing.  I explained =
Geocaching in very basic terms, showing him my PDA with the cache page =
downloaded.  The lack of anxiety in my voice and my forthright =
information satisfied him quickly and he wished me luck and left.  If I =
have nothing to hide, why act as though I do?  As I said before, the =
respect you get is often the respect you give.  In no way do I mean that =
Scott and Regan were being jerks.  I honestly don't believe they gave =
him anything but the respect they would expect from anyone else.  So no, =
I didn't miss the point.

Brian

Team A.I.

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<DIV>I swear, this is going to keep me busy =
for eons=20
just responding to the various posts, along with the refuting anarchy as =
a good=20
alternative.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>First, let's discuss =
litter.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
13-1603. Criminal =
littering or=20
polluting; classification
A. A person commits criminal littering or polluting if such person =
without=20
lawful authority does any of the following:
1. Throws, places, drops or permits to be dropped on public property =
or=20
property of another which is not a lawful dump any litter, destructive =
or=20
injurious material which he does not immediately remove.
2. Discharges or permits to be discharged any sewage, oil products or =
other=20
harmful substances into any waters or onto any shorelines within the =
state. 
3. Dumps any earth, soil, stones, ores or minerals on any land.
B. Criminal littering or polluting is punished as follows:
1. A class 6 felony if a knowing violation of subsection A in which =
the=20
amount of litter or other prohibited material or substance exceeds three =
hundred=20
pounds in weight or one hundred cubic feet in volume or is done in any =
quantity=20
for a commercial purpose.
2. A class 1 misdemeanor if the act is not punishable under paragraph =
1 of=20
this subsection and involves placing any destructive or injurious =
material on or=20
within fifty feet of a highway, beach or shoreline of any body of water =
used by=20
the public.
3. A class 2 misdemeanor if not punishable under paragraph 1 or 2 of =
this=20
subsection. 
&nbsp;
Unless the geocache in question =
weighs&nbsp;greater=20
than&nbsp;300lbs or consumes 100 cubic feet of earth and is commercial =
in=20
nature, it is NOT a felony.&nbsp; It's merely a class 2 =
misdemeanor.&nbsp;=20
Regan, hopefully Scott or yourself will&nbsp;remember the name or at =
least the=20
badge.&nbsp; If not, you can still report the incident, citing the=20
day/time/location, and through their records and investigation can =
figure out=20
who it is.&nbsp; IA doesn't screw around when stuff like this comes down =
the=20
pipe, TRUST ME.
Officer pay.
&nbsp;
DPS pays $36,096 annually for a new =
officer.&nbsp; To=20
reach the mid-point/maximum levels takes years.&nbsp; Annual increases =
don't=20
come unless the legislature chooses to allow it, which doesn't =
happen.&nbsp; We=20
aren't like city agencies who get their money from themselves.&nbsp; =
We're in=20
the pit fighting every other agency/entity for our minute slice of the=20
pie.&nbsp; It is a fact that &lt;1% of the annual budget goes to DPS, =
and yet=20
Napolitano continues to squeeze dollars out of us under the banner of a =
balanced=20
budget.
&nbsp;
Mesa PD starts their officers at $36,816=20
annually.
You're right, they are well paid...if =
this were=20
Somalia.
Safe society.
So, what I gather from this is, the =
homicide suspect=20
one of my officers went into foot pursuit with along Loop101&nbsp;a few =
weeks=20
ago (with a $2 million bond) should be allowed to go free.&nbsp; =
Nevermind the=20
fact that he shot/killed someone, but also had warrants for robbery and =
weapons=20
charges, all out of California.&nbsp; Or the guy who carjacks your car =
while=20
high on methamphetamine should be allowed to take it home and enjoy his =
spoils=20
until he gets bored with it and torches it somewhere in the desert with =
the body=20
of a hooker he killed for drug money in the trunk.&nbsp; 
Daily, I run drivers who regularly show =
suspended or=20
revoked for any number of moving violations (the worst was suspended =
more than=20
27x).&nbsp; More and more I am seeing numerous DUI convictions for =
regular DUI,=20
extreme DUI and felony DUI.&nbsp; These are people that will make a =
career out=20
of jail because they no longer care about who they kill or what overpass =
they=20
careen into while on their latest drinking binge.&nbsp; Following the =
logic I've=20
seen here recently, these people should be allowed to continue =
drinking/driving,=20
putting everyone they come near at risk of serious injury, or death =
because we=20
don't need cops.&nbsp; I don't know if you've been following what the =
Tribune=20
has been printing every Sunday, but DUI is a serious problem.&nbsp; We =
are only=20
able to catch so much of it, but one of those drivers we arrest may have =
been=20
the one that had their targets set on your vehicle at 1am on a remote =
2-lane=20
highway and snuffed out your life before it was due.&nbsp; True, a =
majority of=20
the public follows MOST of the laws, but the population who chooses not =
to is=20
ever increasing.&nbsp; Don't even get me started on the UDAs who are the =

stand-out majority of hit-and-run suspects on just our freeways.&nbsp; =
Quite=20
frankly, officers get the bad rap by default.&nbsp; Unlike=20
firefighters,&nbsp;the public&nbsp;dreads the sight of &nbsp;red/blues=20
in&nbsp;their mirror(s) while driving down the road talking on&nbsp;the=20
cellphone while playing solitaire on&nbsp;a PDA and eating a =
bagel.&nbsp; It's=20
hardly ever a good situation when an officer shows up on your =
doorstep.&nbsp;=20
The power to take someone's freedom is something that I believe is =
resented by=20
some of the masses.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[quote]</FONT></P>
<P>Law enforcement is a thankless job, but I believe that the cops bring =
a lot=20
<BR>of that upon themselves.&nbsp; We seem to forget that our safety =
should fall=20
on <BR>our own shoulders first and that we should be responsible for our =
own=20
safety.</P>
<P>[/quote]</P>
<P>I disagree.&nbsp; It's the apathetic nature of so much of society =
that causes=20
this.&nbsp; Nobody looks out for their neighbors anymore.&nbsp; Everyone =
comes=20
home from work, drives straight into the garage and walks into the house =
without=20
ever setting foot in the sunlight, immediately closing the garage =
door.&nbsp;=20
Kids hardly play out front, and don't go to the park unless the parents =
are=20
around.&nbsp; Yet few of them actually talk and get to know one =
another.&nbsp;=20
I've had many in my neighborhood say how much they would to see a patrol =
car=20
parked in a driveway on a regular basis, because it is a strong crime=20
deterrent.&nbsp; When was the last time someone told you they leave =
their doors=20
unlocked at night?</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[quote]</FONT></P>
<P>I never buy the argument that we don't have enough cops on the =
streets, but=20
<BR>I do see a big problem with the training that our current cops get, =
or I=20
<BR>should say the lack of training they get.&nbsp; I deputy friend of =
mine down=20
<BR>here in Pima was telling me that there is a 1 year waiting list to =
get time=20
<BR>to shot on the county range unless you are doing your qualification=20
shooting.</P>
<P>[/quote]</P>
<P>I cordially invite you to spend a shift with me in OpComm at DPS=20
Headquarters.&nbsp; If that doesn't change your belief that there aren't =
enough=20
cops on the streets (in this case, the metro-Phoenix highways), nothing=20
will.&nbsp; Drop me an e-mail and I'll arrange it.&nbsp; Pima county is =
hardly=20
the barometer for the entire state.&nbsp; It's the fault of the agency =
they work=20
for that this is such an issue, and lack of proper policy/procedure that =
allows=20
it to continue.&nbsp; Shooting is only a portion of the training they=20
receive.&nbsp; DPS requires and enforces the policy that its officers go =
to the=20
range every 3-months to qualify.&nbsp; ALEA is an intense 16-week =
academy that=20
grills you on many, many things, to prepare you for the streets.&nbsp; =
Each=20
department has their own policies on subsequent training before =
beginning=20
FTO.&nbsp; DPS at last word was a 12-week Advanced Basic in addition to =
the=20
16-week ALEA.&nbsp; In all reality, the training DPS provides is =
hands-down the=20
best in the state.&nbsp; On top of these two periods, there is a 12-week =
FTO=20
program before being sent out on your own to work traffic.&nbsp; My =
training for=20
Dispatcher was 15-months.&nbsp; </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Back to the real issue...harassment of=20
Geocachers.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That was the original issue, but the case =
o' worms=20
was opened when such a harshly toned attack on police officers (LE in=20
general)&nbsp;was sent out.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Being questioned by an officer while =
geocaching=20
doesn't constitute harassment.&nbsp; Officers are trained to spot =
suspicious=20
activity, and in all honesty some of the searching we do in looking for =
caches=20
does look truly suspicious.&nbsp; My most recent contact by an officer =
was in=20
Tempe, who saw my truck with the lights on near 52nd St/Broadway at =
Futte o' the=20
Butte.&nbsp; He pulled up and asked what I was doing.&nbsp; I explained=20
Geocaching in very basic terms, showing him my PDA with the cache page=20
downloaded.&nbsp; The lack of anxiety in my voice and my forthright =
information=20
satisfied him quickly and he wished me luck and left.&nbsp; If I have =
nothing to=20
hide, why act as though I do?&nbsp; As I said before, the respect you =
get is=20
often the respect you give.&nbsp; In no way do I mean that Scott and =
Regan were=20
being jerks.&nbsp; I honestly don't believe they gave him anything but =
the=20
respect they would expect from anyone else.&nbsp; So no, I didn't miss =
the=20
point.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Team A.I.<BR></P></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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