[Az-Geocaching] Cacher has cops called and detained by HomeDepotemployees

Tue Aug 15 20:31:03 MST 2006

Good times Good times

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From: az-geocaching-bounces at listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-bounces at listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Jake
Olson
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:01 PM
To: listserv at azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Cacher has cops called and detained by
HomeDepotemployees

I totally agree... 

but that being said, I'm pretty sure that the walmart parking lot will be
the exception to this rule.  

ever notice the RV's parked in their lot??   They allow those folks to live
in the parking lots for, from what I understand, a unlimited amount of time.
I used to work near the Walmart at Warner and Alma School in Chandler.
There were three RV's there that were permenent fixtures.  I recall a news
story stating that Walmart wouldn't go after customers for loitering.  There
was even a guy last spring break that tried to see how long he could live in
a Walmart.  He left from sheer boredom, not at police escort.  

If you feel that you absolutely need to place a cache in a parkinglot, try
to place it away from the store, and away from any merchandise they may have
outside the store.  

I may have missed it, but I never read in the original Home Depot story that
the cache was outside the store.  The only time I would ever consider going
into a business to retrieve a cache, is if I knew that the placer of the
cache was also the owner of the business... Home Depot definately wouldn't
qualify. 

Team Evilfish's "Moving Target" was a different story.  The cache was only
inside the business when he was working.  But a cache like that would never
be allowed now... since it was time sensitive.  I am glad that I got a
chance to log it, and for TEF, it was a great way to meet cachers that he
might otherwise miss if they don't attend event caches. 

Jake - Team A.I.

On 8/15/06, AZcachemeister <azcachemeister at getnet.com> wrote: 

In reality, caches on private property like Home Depot, Kohls, or Ikea are
probably a bad idea, EVEN WITH PERMISSION! 

So Joe Cacher goes to the manager, and gets approval...the right thing to
do, yes?
He gets the manager's name and number, and even posts them on the cache
page. So far, so good.
The manager is so good as to even inform all the employees about the
approved cache. Now we in like Flynn!
Weeks and months go by, employees come and go. Have they all been informed
about the APPROVED Geocache on company property?
More weeks and months go by, I am looking for the cache, and am challenged
by a rookie store employee who never heard of the manager who approved the
cache because that manager has since been assigned to the store in Duluth.
Employee turnover has left no-one who remembers about the Geo-what on the
property, and the police are called.

Jon Liming wrote: 

Well, soeaking as a law enforcement officer,  if I encountered a situation
like this and wasn't a geocacher, I would've handled it much in the way that
the officer Scott ran into did. 

Now I'm not a lawyer and no legal advice is offered in this, but the
detained cacher in question may have an actionable offense against Home
Depot for unlawful detainment. In a case like this, Home Depot could have
directed the cacher to leave and not return, but the detention is in
question. Law Enforcement often has to deal with over zeolous businesses
doing things like this. I'd wager the officer was a little less than tactful
if it happened as recorded since this type of nonsense takes away from our
real jobs. Best thing to do in a situation if you were dentained in this
manner is to simply walk away. If they attempt to detain you, inform them
you will be filing a lawsuit. Chances are, they will back down. Also, the
cacher in question in this home depot incident probably needs also mention
the person in charge of the detention in his or her letter to the corporate
office. Odds are this person will recieve some sort of reprimand and
retraining on how to handle these situations. 

I also prefer more remote caches, mostly because I don't like being watched
when I'm caching. 

Jon
Team LawDog

Roping The Wind  <mailto:arizcowboy at hotmail.com> <arizcowboy at hotmail.com>
wrote: 

While I agree the situation that occured at the Home Depot is a bit 
extreme...

MANY caches placed in urban areas are often placed at business locations... 
usually in parking lots (lamp posts) or around back of the stores, etc. 
Although these places 'seem' to be public, they are VERY MUCH private 
property. THE CACHE OWNER NEEDS TO GET PERMISSION WHENEVER A CACHE IS PLACED

ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!! It is stated so clearly on the geocaching.com web 
site! Unfortunately, probably 99 percent of the time, the cache owner does 
not get permission and just places the cache, thinking the area is public. 
Unless you are patronizing the business, then you are trespassing.

I thought a person would have to be asked first to leave, then if they 
didnt... they could be considered trespassing. But I am not a police 
officer, so I dont really know the extent of that law. But that isnt what 
this is about.

It is about getting permission before placing caches on private property. I 
can tell of a similar situation at a cache behind the businesses on 
Stapley/60. I was searching for the cache when a police officer came up and 
asked me what I was doing. I told him I was geocaching and explained what it

was and offered to show him the cache. He wasnt really interested and just 
told me I needed to leave or whatever and that I was trespassing. So I left.

I have had similar situations a number of times.

I can tell you of yet another situation I encountered. I parked my truck in 
the parking lot of a business to find a cache nearby. This cache was not 
actually on this businesses property. But rather on the property of a 
business across the street! This cache took me a while to find, but it didnt

take very long for a tow truck to show up to my truck. As I came back to my 
truck, I found the tow truck getting into position to hook it up. After some

smooth talking, I was able to leave.

Perhaps some people get a thrill out of the 'stealth' factor of geocaching 
in urban places such as these and the need to trespass to find a cache. 
Perhaps the cache owners get a kick out of reading logs about situations 
like this and even situations like that that occured at that Home Depot. 
Frankly, I do not. We all know that it is easy enough to say we are shopping

at the business and not that we are geocaching. But why should I have to lie

to someone when I am approached? I just tell them what I am doing. I am 
geocaching. I will offer to show them the cache everytime. If they dont like

it, I tell them how they can email the cache owner to have it removed. If 
they ask me to leave, I will leave. These situation are occuring more and 
more these days, it seems. But again, these situations should not happen. If

the cache owner got permission in the first place. I would feel so much more

relaxed and comfortable walking toward a cache in an area that is 
questionable (in terms of private property) if the cache description simply 
said in it "this cache was placed with permission from property owner".

Geocaching.com cant police these kinds of things. It is up to the 
geocachers, those that find the caches, to police the game. If there are 
people out there that insist on placing caches on private property without 
the consent of the property owners... then the cachers that first seek out 
those caches should put an archive note log on the cache page. This assumes,

of course, that the cache description doesnt have something stating that 
permission was obtained to place the cache. If it doesnt state in the 
description that permission was obtained, I can only assume that it was not.

There are several caches placed at Home Depots around the valley, I might 
add.

I would bet any amount of money, that if you asked a store owner if you 
could place a cache on the property..... most of the time they would be cool

with it (why not!? It promotes the store and brings more people onto the 
property).

You will notice that over the past year or more, I have been doing less and 
less urban caching. I prefer caches outside of the city areas, as I dont 
have to deal with stuff like this. I still do urban caches, but I dont feel 
the need to go find every one anymore. There are several within a couple 
miles of my house that I have passed up on finding because they just dont 
interest me anymore. I have no interest in playing 'stealth ninja' anymore. 
I did that for many years back in my childhood days. Ive grown up since. Its

situations like the one that just occured at the Home Depot that turn me off

more and more from geocaching. But soon enough, I find myself out on a quite

and pleasant hike thru the forest to search for a tupperware container or an

ammo box in some quite remote location that keeps the joy and excitement of 
geocaching alive for me.

Scott
Team Ropingthewind

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