<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PlaceName"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Good times Good times<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jake Olson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 15, 2006
8:01 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> listserv@azgeocaching.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Az-Geocaching]
Cacher has cops called and detained by HomeDepotemployees</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I totally agree... <br>
<br>
but that being said, I'm pretty sure that the walmart parking lot will be the
exception to this rule. <br>
<br>
ever notice the RV's parked in their lot?? They allow those folks
to live in the parking lots for, from what I understand, a unlimited amount of
time. I used to work near the Walmart at Warner and <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Alma</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceName w:st="on">School</st1:PlaceName> in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Chandler</st1:place></st1:City>. There were three RV's there
that were permenent fixtures. I recall a news story stating that Walmart
wouldn't go after customers for loitering. There was even a guy last
spring break that tried to see how long he could live in a Walmart. He
left from sheer boredom, not at police escort. <br>
<br>
If you feel that you absolutely need to place a cache in a parkinglot, try to
place it away from the store, and away from any merchandise they may have
outside the store. <br>
<br>
I may have missed it, but I never read in the original Home Depot story that
the cache was outside the store. The only time I would ever consider
going into a business to retrieve a cache, is if I knew that the placer of the
cache was also the owner of the business... Home Depot definately wouldn't
qualify. <br>
<br>
Team Evilfish's "Moving Target" was a different story. The
cache was only inside the business when he was working. But a cache like
that would never be allowed now... since it was time sensitive. I am glad
that I got a chance to log it, and for TEF, it was a great way to meet cachers
that he might otherwise miss if they don't attend event caches. <br>
<br>
Jake - Team A.I.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 8/15/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>AZcachemeister</span></b>
<<a href="mailto:azcachemeister@getnet.com">azcachemeister@getnet.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In reality, caches on private property like Home Depot, Kohls, or Ikea
are probably a bad idea, EVEN <u>WITH</u> PERMISSION! <br>
<br>
So Joe Cacher goes to the manager, and gets approval...the right thing to do,
yes?<br>
He gets the manager's name and number, and even posts them on the cache page.
So far, so good.<br>
The manager is <u>so good</u> as to even inform all the employees about the
approved cache. Now we in like Flynn!<br>
Weeks and months go by, employees come and go. Have they all been informed
about the APPROVED Geocache on company property?<br>
More weeks and months go by, I am looking for the cache, and am challenged by a
rookie store employee who never heard of the manager who approved the cache
because that manager has since been assigned to the store in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Duluth</st1:place></st1:City>. Employee turnover has left no-one who
remembers about the Geo-what on the property, and the police are called.<br>
<br>
<br>
Jon Liming wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span id="q_10d14de2ccf6995e_1">
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=e><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well, soeaking as a law enforcement officer, if
I encountered a situation like this and wasn't a geocacher, I would've handled
it much in the way that the officer Scott ran into did. </span></font></span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Now I'm not a lawyer and no legal advice is offered in this, but
the detained cacher in question may have an actionable offense against Home
Depot for unlawful detainment. In a case like this, Home Depot could have
directed the cacher to leave and not return, but the detention is in question.
Law Enforcement often has to deal with over zeolous businesses doing things
like this. I'd wager the officer was a little less than tactful if it happened
as recorded since this type of nonsense takes away from our real jobs. Best
thing to do in a situation if you were dentained in this manner is to simply
walk away. If they attempt to detain you, inform them you will be filing a
lawsuit. Chances are, they will back down. Also, the cacher in question in this
home depot incident probably needs also mention the person in charge of the
detention in his or her letter to the corporate office. Odds are this person
will recieve some sort of reprimand and retraining on how to handle these
situations. </span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>I also prefer more remote caches, mostly because I don't like
being watched when I'm caching. </span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Jon</span><br>
<span class=e>Team LawDog</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Roping The
Wind <a href="mailto:arizcowboy@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><arizcowboy@hotmail.com></a></span></i></b>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>While I agree the situation that occured at the Home Depot is a bit <br>
extreme...<br>
<br>
MANY caches placed in urban areas are often placed at business locations... <br>
usually in parking lots (lamp posts) or around back of the stores, etc. <br>
Although these places 'seem' to be public, they are VERY MUCH private <br>
property. THE CACHE OWNER NEEDS TO GET PERMISSION WHENEVER A CACHE IS PLACED <br>
ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!! It is stated so clearly on the <a
href="http://geocaching.com" target="_blank">geocaching.com</a> web <br>
site! Unfortunately, probably 99 percent of the time, the cache owner does <br>
not get permission and just places the cache, thinking the area is public. <br>
Unless you are patronizing the business, then you are trespassing.<br>
<br>
I thought a person would have to be asked first to leave, then if they <br>
didnt... they could be considered trespassing. But I am not a police <br>
officer, so I dont really know the extent of that law. But that isnt what <br>
this is about.<br>
<br>
It is about getting permission before placing caches on private property. I <br>
can tell of a similar situation at a cache behind the businesses on <br>
Stapley/60. I was searching for the cache when a police officer came up and <br>
asked me what I was doing. I told him I was geocaching and explained what it <br>
was and offered to show him the cache. He wasnt really interested and just <br>
told me I needed to leave or whatever and that I was trespassing. So I left. <br>
I have had similar situations a number of times.<br>
<br>
I can tell you of yet another situation I encountered. I parked my truck in <br>
the parking lot of a business to find a cache nearby. This cache was not <br>
actually on this businesses property. But rather on the property of a <br>
business across the street! This cache took me a while to find, but it didnt <br>
take very long for a tow truck to show up to my truck. As I came back to my <br>
truck, I found the tow truck getting into position to hook it up. After some <br>
smooth talking, I was able to leave.<br>
<br>
Perhaps some people get a thrill out of the 'stealth' factor of geocaching <br>
in urban places such as these and the need to trespass to find a cache. <br>
Perhaps the cache owners get a kick out of reading logs about situations <br>
like this and even situations like that that occured at that Home Depot. <br>
Frankly, I do not. We all know that it is easy enough to say we are shopping <br>
at the business and not that we are geocaching. But why should I have to lie <br>
to someone when I am approached? I just tell them what I am doing. I am <br>
geocaching. I will offer to show them the cache everytime. If they dont like <br>
it, I tell them how they can email the cache owner to have it removed. If <br>
they ask me to leave, I will leave. These situation are occuring more and <br>
more these days, it seems. But again, these situations should not happen. If <br>
the cache owner got permission in the first place. I would feel so much more <br>
relaxed and comfortable walking toward a cache in an area that is <br>
questionable (in terms of private property) if the cache description simply <br>
said in it "this cache was placed with permission from property
owner".<br>
<br>
<a href="http://Geocaching.com" target="_blank">Geocaching.com</a> cant police
these kinds of things. It is up to the <br>
geocachers, those that find the caches, to police the game. If there are <br>
people out there that insist on placing caches on private property without <br>
the consent of the property owners... then the cachers that first seek out <br>
those caches should put an archive note log on the cache page. This assumes, <br>
of course, that the cache description doesnt have something stating that <br>
permission was obtained to place the cache. If it doesnt state in the <br>
description that permission was obtained, I can only assume that it was not.<br>
<br>
There are several caches placed at Home Depots around the valley, I might <br>
add.<br>
<br>
I would bet any amount of money, that if you asked a store owner if you <br>
could place a cache on the property..... most of the time they would be cool <br>
with it (why not!? It promotes the store and brings more people onto the <br>
property).<br>
<br>
You will notice that over the past year or more, I have been doing less and <br>
less urban caching. I prefer caches outside of the city areas, as I dont <br>
have to deal with stuff like this. I still do urban caches, but I dont feel <br>
the need to go find every one anymore. There are several within a couple <br>
miles of my house that I have passed up on finding because they just dont <br>
interest me anymore. I have no interest in playing 'stealth ninja' anymore. <br>
I did that for many years back in my childhood days. Ive grown up since. Its <br>
situations like the one that just occured at the Home Depot that turn me off <br>
more and more from geocaching. But soon enough, I find myself out on a quite <br>
and pleasant hike thru the forest to search for a tupperware container or an <br>
ammo box in some quite remote location that keeps the joy and excitement of <br>
geocaching alive for me.<br>
<br>
Scott<br>
Team Ropingthewind<br>
<br>
<br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
<a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
<a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=e><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>__________________________________________________<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>
<a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</span>
<div><pre style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></font></pre></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=q><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>____________________________________________________________
Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a> To edit your setting, subscribe
or unsubscribe visit: <a
href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a>
Arizona's Geocaching Resource <a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a> </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com
</a><br>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
<a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
</a><br>
<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
<a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>