[Az-Geocaching] Mo' bettah caches!

Brian Casteel bcasteel at uccinc.net
Sun Mar 6 13:08:16 MST 2005


Actually, you forgot a huge part of what's been going on during the last few years with the local community. It has, in fact, been the LOCAL community stepping up to the plate in the name of caching, to get the name out there and a positive opinion of our activities.  Team TierraBuena comes to mind as being on to spearhead a number of efforts, as well as my taking on the responbility initially with the Adopt-A-Highway Program.  Sport Trac/k has graciously stepped up to the plate to handle those responsibilities now, and for that I'm thankful.  I should point out again that neither of the caching teams I mentioned live in Seattle.  That being said, all the momentum toward a good community caching relationship has been handled by locals exclusively.  There are many others I may have forgotten (StringCachers being one) or don't even know about helping further this activity for all of us.

The concept of having a panel of cachers for an area isn't bad at all really.  But I believe that their anonymity should remain in place with no flexibility on this whatsoever, because you know full well that there would be someone out there bucking for favors to get a cache approved, putting the approver in an uncomfortable position, thereby making it more difficult to get/keep reviewers on a panel.  The current admin-approver for Arizona lives in Arizona, so there is a greater familiarity with the state than CO_Admin had.  Even with him in place, I respected the guy and had no problems in my relationship with him whatsoever. 

There has been a plague of 'too simple' caches, largely I think because of new teams that just don't have the experience of others and want to participate in some way by giving back.  There are others that do those caches for the sake of the kids that go caching with their parents, so it's something at a level that they can understand and appreciate.

Now, I must say that I resent the comment/suggestion that Walmart light pole caches are the 'norm' up here, especially if you haven't taken the time to visit.  I will admit that there are a few like that, partly due to inexperience, but the majority of the caches in this region are well thought out and I've enjoyed almost all of them.  Then again, you'll find them just about everywhere these days.   Finally seeing more to graldrich's concept, I'm still on the fence.  With multiple teams participating, it's kind of a cool idea.  Depending on where it was that the concept was to be implemented could sway me either way.  There are 100 caches within 5.1 miles of the trailhead mentioned for that power trail.  This isn't even counting distances along the cache route, so I feel that in this case it would be a saturation.  Look up here, for example, and that might be different.  The cache count in this state overall is a fraction of Arizona.  Such a concept would probably do well up here, because the area overall is far from becoming saturated.  In that respect, I think it boils down to geography and caches already available, which I bet had something to do with the rejection of the initial concept, however it was presented.

Would it really be any different what Groundspeak is doing if the headquarters was in Scottsdale, Glendale or even Tucson?  If the policy implementation was the same, would the ill will toward them still be at such a level?  Also, it appears that gc.com is more open to what's going on than you give them credit for.  More and more they are seeking input from Joe Cacher for developments of aspects of geocaching, but the group up there now is implementing policy for the betterment of the community, to prevent it from becoming a monster that cannot be controlled.  Those policies, while unpopular to some, are helping to maintain a sport/hobby/game that we can continue to enjoy in many places.  Lack of policy would quickly harden the hearts of those who can make-or-break caching for us in many ways.  Implementing a global policy system seems to work better IMHO to ensure that everyone is on the same page, and providing for fewer opportunities where individuals/groups can interpret rules their own way to suit their own desires, which leads to huge problems.

Brian
Team A.I.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TEAM 360 
  To: az-geocaching at listserv.azgeocaching.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 12:39 PM
  Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Mo' bettah caches!





    Actually, I was wondering how Team 360 was doing. Last time we heard 
    from you, you were heading home. Are you still in state? Did you get a 
    job? We sure hope so.

    Still here in Arizona. Struggling to stay here and still looking for work. It's tough out there these days. Still geocaching (without a GPS, sometimes by zooming the map in all the way and reading clues, and sometimes by teaming up with RopingTheWind, graldrich and whoever else will let me tag along). Thanks for remembering!

    So Geocaching.com is once again resurrected as the scourge of the caching world, because they enforce policies to try and keep Geocaching a good experience that works well with those involved, and especially the land managers and government officials who can easily swing their axe of power and cut off our ability to cache in areas they have control over.  :rolleyes:


    Brian
    Team A.I.

    Roll your eyes all you like...and stomp your feet to stay warm if you are getting cold up there, Brian...I never said GC.com was the "scourge" of the earth or that their policies concerning land owner management-relations were so terribly wrong. What I DID say is that I would like to see every state control their own caches. There is a lot of great opportunity in that idea. 
    For starters, the land owners would be working with the LOCAL caching community, not someone up in Seattle. A lot more can be accomplished face-to-face, rather than through impersonal emails over 1000 miles. Cachers here in Arizona are just as capable as GC.com to work with land agencies. Even more so, in my opinion. 
    Also, there could be a GROUP of cache approvers for Arizona, not just one. They could be voted in by the caching community on an annual basis. They would be people we would ALL know, not hiding behind the GC.com mask of anonymity. Quality of caches would improve DRAMATICALLY if 3 out of 5 reviewers had to give it a "yes" vote before it got listed. Caches might even be pre-visited by an approver. 
    Wouldn't you rather see QUALITY caches here in Arizona, rather than the current onslaught of  behind-the-WalMart-dumpster-soggy-logsheet micro caches? Maybe that's the norm up there where you are at, but it SHOULDN'T BE for Arizona. Or anywhere else, really. Now, I am not saying I hate micros, either. As long as a cache is DONE WELL, it doesn't matter to me if it's an ammo can or a micro or anything else inbetween. I would just like to see better caches, in better places. 
    Having GC.com tell us what types of caches we can or cannot place (Virts, Locationless, and now this Power Trail Mess) does not sit well with me. We should be in control of our own state when it comes to making these decisions, not sitting back and letting Seattle dictate to us. Again, I think a Power Trail, done well, would be a good idea. graldrich has the right idea. Can't you see a Power Trail with 30-50 different caches, all camo'd differently, in different types of hiding spots? What a great way to teach and train, not only newbies, but some of you "old-school" cachers as well...

    On a final note, 

    I would GLADLY send azgeocaching.com my $30 a year to get 'er done!
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