[Az-Geocaching] Notification of Cache Removal

Wed, 4 Aug 2004 20:39:32 -0600

So y'all thought I was gone, didn't you?  :)

The problems that azgeocaching.com has been having with regards to getting
cache information for the custom file builds and stats maintenance was due
to things just like this, and may in some way contributed to the ill will
towards spiders.  The gurus of azgc.com took into account peak traffic
times, and ran the query in the middle of the night when the largest portion
of the Geocaching world was snoozing away the previous days caching.
However, if a spider was poorly written (and this was definitely the cause o
f some of the performance issues), they occasionally went into a continuous
loop and not only consumed all the processing power, but sometimes even all
the available bandwidth.

It's no wonder they are protective of that problem, because it results in
increased costs of doing business, from expanding the server farm to
increasing bandwidth, all things that cost dead presidents to support.  If
the service is used as it was meant to, costs would be lower, and supporters
of geocaching.com in a monetary fashion would see more bang for their buck.
Sure, I think there should be a separate portal for different regional
geocaching groups to use as a data mining portal, but this also leads to
bandwidth costs and potentially server load issues if coders don't honor
policies established, or simply don't know how to code at all and lock up
the servers.

Geocaching.com IS a service that lists our caches for us.  They provide a
great deal of that service at no charge, except in what they bring revenue
wise from sales of Geocaching merchandise and those who pay-to-play (sorry,
had to use the phrase).  The database they create for this purpose is
proprietary, and should be.  The content of the database isn't, but that's a
debate as worth the time as it would be to argue why black holes are....
Why should they open up and freely accept a service that alone could result
in crippling the system to the point where it functions for nobody at all?
If those at GeoToad collaborated with gc.com to integrate this or find a
happy medium (i.e., specific time frames allowed to run), then it might
work.  But just like spiders created by other sites, they lead to problems,
because inevitably there is someone out there who doesn't know wtf they're
doing and codes something wrong or simply doesn't take into account just how
much bandwidth is being eaten up by their processes.  Yes, text compresses
EXTREMELY well, but you have enough people leeching that text and it quickly
adds up.

There are civil ways of having a debate on a controversial issue, and there
is your way.  In the gc.com forums I found the posts not inquistive, but
rather abrasive.  Did they really need to list a reason for a 'cease and
desist' order?  Perhaps.  But to anyone following the forums at all, this is
a known issue that has plagued the site in recent months, and even the
azgc.com guys have mentioned code poisoning to limit/terminate the crawling
of the site for information.  Heavy-handed tactics would have been calling
in the RIAA to sue some 84 year-old granny for allowing her teenage grandson
to spider the geocaching site for a quick, custom PQ.

Now that I look back, I see they DID issue a reason for the cease and desist
REQUEST, which is as follows:

Upon a review of section #3 (License to Use Site; Restrictions) of the Terms
of Use, please note that your GeoToad application is in direct violation of
our site's usage policy.

As mentioned before on the forums, there are other sites out there, but none
with the quality of site as you have with gc.com.  If it angers you so much
that you are going to pull your caches, go ahead and crusade for the cause
of a business protecting themselves.  Navicache exists and you could even
start your own site if it angers you that much.  When your bandwidth costs
triple because of programmed crawlers, maybe you'll understand.  Remember
that Geocaching wouldn't have become such a phenomenon if someone didn't
pick up the torch and carry it this far.  Jeremy originally did this as a
hobby but it consumed too much time and money, so rather than letting it die
he chose to take a different path that benefits all.  Some of the decisions
don't make everyone happy, but since when does that happen?  Just look at
Microsoft.  So he lives off the company that is Geocaching.  I'd much rather
have that than to rely on an ineffective system such as the newgroups to
catalogue and simplify the things we currently take for granted.

Brian
Team A.I.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Schuman" <Lpublic@cox.net>
To: <az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Notification of Cache Removal

> I will be removing my caches in the near future. Those of you that wish to
visit them
> should do so soon.
>
> If you want details you can find them here:
>
> http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=76690
>
> I find the heavy-handed tactics geocaching.com is using here deplorable.
>
> And i'll be removing my caches if they insist on making no attempt to work
with the
> developer of Geotoad other than to issue a cease and desist order. (Which
was their
> first contact, it also made scant mention of why it was even issued in the
first place)
>
> -- 
> Lasivian
> Website - http://members.cox.net/lasivian/
> E-mail - http://members.cox.net/lasivian/email.html
> ICQ# 3619356
> -- 
>
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