[Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different Folks

Jeff Moriarty listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:52:49 -0700


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I just can't believe the attitude of some of the Geocachers in this =
state.  I pulled out of this mailing list for a while out of =
frustration, and returned to find little had changed. =20

The folks at Geocaching.com do not own the sport of geocaching, but they =
do own their site and are 100% within their rights to decide what rules =
to impose on caches that they allow to be posted.  None of us has a =
"right" to circumvent their rules if we disagree, and should be honoring =
their rules out of respect for what they have done for our hobby.  I =
also think anyone who has found over 20 caches and isn't a charter =
member should be ashamed of themselves, but that's another thread.

That said, I see nothing wrong with the idea of a Couple/Adults Only =
cache.  So if Geocaching.com won't post it, then post the info for it on =
your personal web site and list your site in your profile on =
Geocaching.com.  Or go to one of the several other Geocaching web sites =
out there and support them instead.  But if you disagree with =
Geocaching.com's decision then discuss it, plead your case, etc., but =
please behave like an adult and honor their final decision.

Jeff.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Brian LaFrance=20
  To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:24 PM
  Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different =
Folks


  Submit the cache as a normal cache and then modify the listing once it =
is approved...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com =
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Mark
    Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 6:09 PM
    To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
    Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different =
Folks=20

          We recently read comments regarding caches being listed for =
different types of objectives including off road caches, etc. I believe =
it was Team Tierra Buena who mentioned pet friendly caches, kid friendly =
caches, handicap accessible caches, etc. It is our recent experience =
that EVERY cache must be "kid" orientated or the reviewers of submitted =
caches will invoke their own personal belief system and reject the cache =
for posting.


          A little background, we have been geocaching for quite a long =
period in geocaching terms and enjoyed a wide variety of caches. In many =
cases we enjoy the hunt of urban caches with our children. At times when =
the kids are with grandmother we go after more challenging caches. In =
the last 6 months we have seemingly noticed a change in the quality of =
items left in caches. In the "good old days" the items left were unique =
and a lot of fun. With the rush to find 100's of caches people no longer =
can afford unique items and find a lot of "happy meal" items left in =
caches. It was over a few beers with hubby that we thought we would try =
something new - A Couples Only Cache. A cache designed by a couple for =
other couples. As the title implies this cache was designed for other =
like-minded couples who wanted to add a bit of spice to geocaching. =
Unique and fun novelty items were include! d in the cache. To insure =
this cache could not be found by underage children it is located way out =
in the desert with no houses within 15 miles of the site. The cache and =
description is clearly marked "For Adults Only"


          Upon submitting our cache location we were informed by the =
geocache reviewer that if a cache is not for kids and the entire family =
it is not an appropriate geocache and thus not be listed. I would hate =
to think that a few narrowed minded people are in control of what a =
geocache should or should not be. If someone has personal objections to =
an adult type cache - don't go search for it! Although the same =
narrow-minded people may find the content "objectionable=14 it is far =
from pornographic.=20


          We would like to get opinions from the real geocachers on this =
web site. For those of you have a interest in locating the cache it is =
located in the Avra Valley area just a few miles away from other caches =
in the desert that include - The Prize, Sawtooth, Lost Point, etc. An =
interesting side note this location appears to be a "swamp land" sale. =
We found it over 18 months ago and nothing has changed. There are three =
ways into the area and it is all dirt roads but does not require 4 =
wheel. We came in from Avra Valley road. Look forward to the geocaching =
community=12s comments.


          Coyote Springs - A Cache Designed By and for Fun Couples Only!

          N 32.32.108
          W 111.35.179


          1st Turn Off - Actually this takes you down the natural gas =
pipeline.

          N 32. 29.860

          W 111.29.920


          2nd Turn Off

          N 32.32.047

          W 111.32.226




          --- On Fri 01/10, < =
az-geocaching-request@listserv.azgeocaching.com > wrote:


            From: [mailto: =
az-geocaching-request@listserv.azgeocaching.com]
            To: az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com
            Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:05:07 -0700
            Subject: Az-Geocaching digest, Vol 1 #885 - 10 msgs

            Send Az-Geocaching mailing list submissions to
            az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com

            To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
            =
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocach! ing
            or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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            Today's Topics:

            1. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)
            2. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force =
(barry.neely@prudential.com)
            3. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)
            4. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Team Tierra Buena)
            5. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)
            6. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Team Tierra Buena)
            7. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force =
(barry.neely@prudential.com)
            8. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)
            9. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike Force (Team Tierra Buena)
            10. RE: El Camino del Diablo Strike! Force (Scott Wood)

            --__--__--

            Message: 1
            Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:02:03 -0700
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            From: Scott Wood=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            At 01:45 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:

            >It sounds like we are making this a one day kind of thing. =
Any thought of
            >going out on Sat and staying the night? Do not want to rush =
the fun of
            >finding.

            I have been thinking about doing just that. We are looking =
at a 3 hour=20
            trip from Tucson. That makes for a pretty early departure =
time and a late=20
            return. Makes for a very full day. We might head up on =
Saturday, hit some=20
            of the caches around Yuma, and then meet everyone on Sunday =
morning.

            Haven't really decided yet, but that is the idea we are =
kicking around.


            In liberty,

            Scott

            wood@myblueheaven.com
            www.myblueheaven.com


            -! -__--__--

            Message: 2
            From: barry.neely@prudential.com
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:57:53 -0700
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com


            Scott,

            What kind of distance are we talking about with out the side =
trip to Yuma?

            Hiker




            Scott Wood=20
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
            Sent by: cc:=20
            az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching. Subject: RE: =
[Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike Force=20
            com=20



            Thursday January 9, 2003 01:02 PM=20
            Please respond to listserv=20






            At 01:45 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote:

            >It sounds like we are making this a one day kind of thing. =
Any thought of
            >going out on Sat and staying the night? Do not want to rush =
the fun of
            >finding.

            I have been thinking about doing just that. We are looking =
at a 3 hour
            trip f! rom Tucson. That makes for a pretty early departure =
time and a late
            return. Makes for a very full day. We might head up on =
Saturday, hit some
            of the caches around Yuma, and then meet everyone on Sunday =
morning.

            Haven't really decided yet, but that is the idea we are =
kicking around.


            In liberty,

            Scott

            wood@myblueheaven.com
            www.myblueheaven.com

            _______________________________________________
            Az-Geocaching mailing list
            listserv@azgeocaching.com
            =
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching

            Arizona's Geocaching Resource
            http://www.azgeocaching.com





            --__--__--

            Message: 3
            Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:59:30 -0700
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            From: Scott Wood=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            At 01:57 PM 1/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:

            >What kind of distance are! we talking about with out the =
side trip to Yuma?

            I'm not really sure what you mean, but it looks like it is =
218 miles from=20
            my driveway to Welton. I am not sure how many miles it is =
from Welton into=20
            the caches.

            It does look like there are a number of caches around Yuma =
and Welton that=20
            might make heading up a day early worthwhile.


            In liberty,

            Scott

            wood@myblueheaven.com
            www.myblueheaven.com


            --__--__--

            Message: 4
            From: "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            To:=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:02:42 -0700
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            > I am targeting going and getting my=20
            > permit on Friday. I think that there is a place closer and =

            > not as hard to get to than the one down town.

            That would be the BLM office at 21605 N. 7th Ave. N 33 =
40.940 W112
            04.933.

            ! > It sounds like we are making this a one day kind of =
thing.=20
            > Any thought of going out on Sat and staying the night?=20

            Another reason I don't favor convoys. Some may well want to =
do that,
            others wouldn't hear of it. Judi and I may drive down to =
Yuma on
            Saturday and stay over, but we're still discussing the =
additional
            expense. As Judi has to work on Saturday, though, we'd get =
there too
            late for any Saturday caching .

            Steve
            Team Tierra Buena
            There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental =
illness". -- Dave
            Barry


            --__--__--

            Message: 5
            Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:38:37 -0700
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            From: Scott Wood=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            At 03:02 PM 1/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:

            >Saturday and stay over, but we're still discussing the =
additional
            >expense. As Judi has t! o work on Saturday, though, we'd =
get there too
            >late for any Saturday caching .

            As I said in a previous message, we are also thinking about =
heading down on=20
            Saturday and finding some of the area caches. Probably won't =
leave Tucson=20
            too early though. If you do decide to head down Saturday =
evening, we will=20
            have to get together for a drink.


            In liberty,

            Scott

            wood@myblueheaven.com
            www.myblueheaven.com


            --__--__--

            Message: 6
            From: "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            To:=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 15:44:20 -0700
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            > I am not sure how many miles it is=20
            > from Welton into=20
            > the caches.

            If I'm correctly reading the map the crude Fish and Wildlife =
service map
            I got with the permit, it's approximately 32 miles from =
Wellton to TuleWell, which is fairly near the ECdD cache. Based on =
everything I've read
            and heard, though, leaving Wellton with anything other than =
a full tank
            of petrol is foolhardy.

            Speaking of getting gassed, if we're there Saturday night, =
you're on for
            that drink, Scott!

            Steve
            Team Tierra Buena
            There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental =
illness". -- Dave
            Barry



            --__--__--

            Message: 7
            From: barry.neely@prudential.com
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:34:48 -0700
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com


            When I talked about staying over night Sat I was thinking =
about doing some
            camping. We could drive in on Sat, find a nice base camp, =
maybe do a cache
            on Sat and then the rest on Sunday. Any one interested??

            Hiker





            "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            To:=20
            cc:=20
            Sent by: Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo =
Strike Force=20
            az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.=20
            com=20



            Thursday January 9, 2003 03:44 PM=20
            Please respond to listserv=20






            > I am not sure how many miles it is
            > from Welton into
            > the caches.

            If I'm correctly reading the map the crude Fish and Wildlife =
service map
            I got with the permit, it's approximately 32 miles from =
Wellton to Tule
            Well, which is fairly near the ECdD cache. Based on =
everything I've read
            and heard, though, leaving Wellton with anything other than =
a full tank
            of petrol is foolhardy.

            Speaking of getting gassed, if we're there Saturday night, =
you're on for
            that drink, Scott!

            Steve
            Team Tierra Buena
            There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental =
illness". -- Dave
            Barry


            _______________________________________________
            Az-Geocaching mailing list
            l! istserv@azgeocaching.com
            =
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching

            Arizona's Geocaching Resource
            http://www.azgeocaching.com





            --__--__--

            Message: 8
            Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:47:34 -0700
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            From: Scott Wood=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            At 09:34 AM 1/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:


            >When I talked about staying over night Sat I was thinking =
about doing some
            >camping. We could drive in on Sat, find a nice base camp, =
maybe do a cache
            >on Sat and then the rest on Sunday. Any one interested??

            I think our camping will be in a hotel/motel. While I am not =
opposed to=20
            the idea of camping, we are going to be in the FJ-40 and =
space is a real=20
            premium, so camping hear will be staying at home.


            Scott
            Team My Blue Heaven
            www.myblueheaven.com! /geocache


            --__--__--

            Message: 9
            From: "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            To:=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:13:03 -0700
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com



            >=20
            > When I talked about staying over night Sat I was thinking=20
            > about doing some camping. We could drive in on Sat, find a =

            > nice base camp, maybe do a cache on Sat and then the rest =
on=20
            > Sunday. Any one interested??

            I would be, but not as interested as I am uninterested in =
pitching a
            tent at 9 PM after driving in the dark for two-and-a-half =
hours. So,
            like Scott, if we come down Saturday, we will be at Camp =
Ramada or
            something similar.

            Steve
            Team Tierra Buena
            There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental =
illness". -- Dave
            Barry



            --__--__--

            Message: 10
            Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:38:4! 4 -0700
            To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
            From: Scott Wood=20
            Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike =
Force
            Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

            At 09:34 AM 1/10/2003 -0700, you wrote:


            >When I talked about staying over night Sat I was thinking =
about doing some
            >camping. We could drive in on Sat, find a nice base camp, =
maybe do a cache
            >on Sat and then the rest on Sunday. Any one interested??

            Even though we won't be camping, if we do come down on =
Saturday, we would=20
            be interested in getting together to find some caches. I =
haven't taken any=20
            time yet to plan out a possible Saturday cache trip, but =
will. I have been=20
            busy planning a Sunday/Monday trip to Phoenix.


            In liberty,

            Scott

            wood@myblueheaven.com
            www.myblueheaven.com



            --__--__--

            _______________________________________________
            Az-Geocaching mailing list
            listserv@azgeocaching.com!=20
            =
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching

            Arizona's Geocaching Resource
            http://www.azgeocaching.com



            End of Az-Geocaching Digest
        =20



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<BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just can't believe the attitude of =
some of the=20
Geocachers in this state.&nbsp; I pulled out of this mailing list for a =
while=20
out of frustration, and returned to find little had changed.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The folks at Geocaching.com do not own =
the sport of=20
geocaching, but they do own their site and are 100% within their rights =
to=20
decide what rules to impose on caches that they allow to be =
posted.&nbsp; None=20
of us has a "right" to circumvent their rules if we disagree, and should =
be=20
honoring their rules out of respect for what they have done for our =
hobby.&nbsp;=20
I also think anyone who has found over 20 caches and isn't a charter =
member=20
should be ashamed of themselves, but that's another thread.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That said, I see nothing wrong with the =
idea of a=20
Couple/Adults Only cache.&nbsp; So if Geocaching.com won't post it, then =
post=20
the info for it on your personal web site and list your site in your =
profile on=20
Geocaching.com.&nbsp; Or go to one of the several other Geocaching web =
sites out=20
there and support them instead.&nbsp; But if you disagree with =
Geocaching.com's=20
decision then&nbsp;discuss it, plead your case, etc., but please behave =
like an=20
adult and honor their final decision.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbrian@brianlafrance.com =
href=3D"mailto:brian@brianlafrance.com">Brian=20
  LaFrance</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 10, 2003 =
6:24=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
Caches -=20
  Different Strokes For Different Folks</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D175492201-11012003><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Submit =
the cache as=20
  a&nbsp;normal cache and then modify the listing once it is=20
  approved...</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com">az-geocachi=
ng-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com</A>=20
    [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<B>On Behalf =
Of=20
    </B>Mark<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 10, 2003 6:09 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A><B=
R><B>Subject:</B>=20
    [Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different Folks<SPAN=20
    class=3D175492201-11012003><FONT face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D10 width=3D"100%" =
bgColor=3Dwhite border=3D0>
      <TBODY>
      <TR height=3D200>
        <TD width=3D"100%"><FONT size=3D2>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We recently read =
comments=20
          regarding caches being listed for different types of =
objectives=20
          including off road caches, etc. I believe it was Team Tierra =
Buena who=20
          mentioned pet friendly caches, kid friendly caches, handicap=20
          accessible caches, etc. It is our recent experience that EVERY =
cache=20
          must be "kid" orientated or the reviewers of submitted caches =
will=20
          invoke their own personal belief system and reject the cache =
for=20
          posting.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A little =
background, we=20
          have been geocaching for quite a long period in geocaching =
terms and=20
          enjoyed a wide variety of caches. In many cases we enjoy the =
hunt of=20
          urban caches with our children. At times when the kids are =
with=20
          grandmother we go after more challenging caches. In the last 6 =
months=20
          we have seemingly noticed a change in the quality of items =
left in=20
          caches. In the "good old days" the items left were unique and =
a lot of=20
          fun. With the rush to find 100's of caches people no longer =
can afford=20
          unique items and find a lot of "happy meal" items left in =
caches. It=20
          was over a few beers with hubby that we thought we would try =
something=20
          new - A Couples Only Cache. A cache designed by a couple for =
other=20
          couples. As the title implies this cache was designed for =
other=20
          like-minded couples who wanted to add a bit of spice to =
geocaching.=20
          Unique and fun novelty items were include! d in the cache. To =
insure=20
          this cache could not be found by underage children it is =
located way=20
          out in the desert with no houses within 15 miles of the site. =
The=20
          cache and description is clearly marked "For Adults=20
          Only"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Upon submitting =
our cache=20
          location we were informed by the geocache reviewer that if a =
cache is=20
          not for kids and the entire family it is not an appropriate =
geocache=20
          and thus not be listed. I would hate to think that a few =
narrowed=20
          minded people are in control of what a geocache should or =
should not=20
          be. If someone has personal objections to an adult type cache =
- don't=20
          go search for it! Although the same narrow-minded people may =
find the=20
          content "objectionable=14 it is far from pornographic.=20
          <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We would like to =
get=20
          opinions from the real geocachers on this web site. For those =
of you=20
          have a interest in locating the cache it is located in the =
Avra Valley=20
          area just a few miles away from other caches in the desert =
that=20
          include - The Prize, Sawtooth, Lost Point, etc. An interesting =
side=20
          note this location appears to be a "swamp land" sale. We found =
it over=20
          18 months ago and nothing has changed. There are three ways =
into the=20
          area and it is all dirt roads but does not require 4 wheel. We =
came in=20
          from Avra Valley road. Look forward to the geocaching =
community=12s=20
          comments.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Coyote Springs - =
A Cache=20
          Designed By and for Fun Couples Only!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">N 32.32.108<BR>W =

          111.35.179<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1st Turn Off - =
Actually=20
          this takes you down the natural gas =
pipeline.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">N 32.=20
          29.860<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">W=20
          111.29.920<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2nd Turn=20
          Off<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">N=20
          32.32.047<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><SPAN=20
          style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">W=20
          111.32.226</SPAN><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Fri 01/10, &lt;=20
          az-geocaching-request@listserv.azgeocaching.com &gt; =
wrote:<BR><BR>
          <BLOCKQUOTE=20
          style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 7px; MARGIN-LEFT: 7px; BORDER-LEFT: =
orange 2px solid"><B>From:=20
            </B>[mailto:=20
            az-geocaching-request@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<BR><B>To:=20
            </B>az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Date: =
</B>Fri, 10=20
            Jan 2003 12:05:07 -0700<BR><B>Subject: </B>Az-Geocaching =
digest, Vol=20
            1 #885 - 10 msgs<BR><BR>Send Az-Geocaching mailing list =
submissions=20
            to<BR>az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>To =
subscribe or=20
            unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,=20
            =
visit<BR>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocach!=20
            ing<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body =
'help'=20
            =
to<BR>az-geocaching-request@listserv.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>You can=20
            reach the person managing the list=20
            =
at<BR>az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>When=20
            replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more=20
            specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of Az-Geocaching=20
            digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. RE: El =
Camino del=20
            Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)<BR>2. RE: El Camino del =
Diablo=20
            Strike Force (barry.neely@prudential.com)<BR>3. RE: El =
Camino del=20
            Diablo Strike Force (Scott Wood)<BR>4. RE: El Camino del =
Diablo=20
            Strike Force (Team Tierra Buena)<BR>5. RE: El Camino del =
Diablo=20
            Strike Force (Scott Wood)<BR>6. RE: El Camino del Diablo =
Strike=20
            Force (Team Tierra Buena)<BR>7. RE: El Camino del Diablo =
Strike=20
            Force (barry.neely@prudential.com)<BR>8. RE: El Camino del =
Diablo=20
            Strike Force (Scott Wood)<BR>9. RE: El Camino del Diablo =
Strike=20
            Force (Team Tierra Buena)<BR>10. RE: El Camino del Diablo =
Strike!=20
            Force (Scott Wood)<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
1<BR>Date: Thu,=20
            09 Jan 2003 13:02:03 -0700<BR>To: =
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>From:=20
            Scott Wood <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>Subject: RE: =
[Az-Geocaching]=20
            El Camino del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>At 01:45 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, =
you=20
            wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;It sounds like we are making this a one =
day kind=20
            of thing. Any thought of<BR>&gt;going out on Sat and staying =
the=20
            night? Do not want to rush the fun =
of<BR>&gt;finding.<BR><BR>I have=20
            been thinking about doing just that. We are looking at a 3 =
hour=20
            <BR>trip from Tucson. That makes for a pretty early =
departure time=20
            and a late <BR>return. Makes for a very full day. We might =
head up=20
            on Saturday, hit some <BR>of the caches around Yuma, and =
then meet=20
            everyone on Sunday morning.<BR><BR>Haven't really decided =
yet, but=20
            that is the idea we are kicking around.<BR><BR><BR>In=20
            =
liberty,<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>wood@myblueheaven.com<BR>www.myblueheaven.co=
m<BR><BR><BR>-!=20
            -__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>From:=20
            barry.neely@prudential.com<BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
El Camino=20
            del Diablo Strike Force<BR>To: =
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>Date:=20
            Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:57:53 -0700<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR>Scott,<BR><BR>What kind =
of=20
            distance are we talking about with out the side trip to=20
            Yuma?<BR><BR>Hiker<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Scott Wood=20
            <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com =
<BR>Sent=20
            by: cc: <BR>az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching. =
Subject: RE:=20
            [Az-Geocaching] El Camino del Diablo Strike Force <BR>com=20
            <BR><BR><BR><BR>Thursday January 9, 2003 01:02 PM <BR>Please =
respond=20
            to listserv <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 01:45 PM 1/9/2003 =
-0500,=20
            you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;It sounds like we are making this a =
one day=20
            kind of thing. Any thought of<BR>&gt;going out on Sat and =
staying=20
            the night? Do not want to rush the fun =
of<BR>&gt;finding.<BR><BR>I=20
            have been thinking about doing just that. We are looking at =
a 3=20
            hour<BR>trip f! rom Tucson. That makes for a pretty early =
departure=20
            time and a late<BR>return. Makes for a very full day. We =
might head=20
            up on Saturday, hit some<BR>of the caches around Yuma, and =
then meet=20
            everyone on Sunday morning.<BR><BR>Haven't really decided =
yet, but=20
            that is the idea we are kicking around.<BR><BR><BR>In=20
            =
liberty,<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>wood@myblueheaven.com<BR>www.myblueheaven.co=
m<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Az-Geocaching=
=20
            mailing=20
            =
list<BR>listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mai=
lman/listinfo/az-geocaching<BR><BR>Arizona's=20
            Geocaching=20
            =
Resource<BR>http://www.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--=
<BR><BR>Message:=20
            3<BR>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 14:59:30 -0700<BR>To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>From: Scott Wood=20
            <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El =
Camino=20
            del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>At 01:57 PM 1/9/2003 -0700, =
you=20
            wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;What kind of distance are! we talking =
about with=20
            out the side trip to Yuma?<BR><BR>I'm not really sure what =
you mean,=20
            but it looks like it is 218 miles from <BR>my driveway to =
Welton. I=20
            am not sure how many miles it is from Welton into <BR>the=20
            caches.<BR><BR>It does look like there are a number of =
caches around=20
            Yuma and Welton that <BR>might make heading up a day early=20
            worthwhile.<BR><BR><BR>In=20
            =
liberty,<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>wood@myblueheaven.com<BR>www.myblueheaven.co=
m<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message:=20
            4<BR>From: "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            <TEAMTIERRABUENA@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To:=20
            <LISTSERV@AZGEOCACHING.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
El=20
            Camino del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 =
15:02:42=20
            -0700<BR>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>&gt; I =
am=20
            targeting going and getting my <BR>&gt; permit on Friday. I =
think=20
            that there is a place closer and <BR>&gt; not as hard to get =
to than=20
            the one down town.<BR><BR>That would be the BLM office at =
21605 N.=20
            7th Ave. N 33 40.940 W112<BR>04.933.<BR><BR>! &gt; It sounds =
like we=20
            are making this a one day kind of thing. <BR>&gt; Any =
thought of=20
            going out on Sat and staying the night? <BR><BR>Another =
reason I=20
            don't favor convoys. Some may well want to do =
that,<BR>others=20
            wouldn't hear of it. Judi and I may drive down to Yuma=20
            on<BR>Saturday and stay over, but we're still discussing the =

            additional<BR>expense. As Judi has to work on Saturday, =
though, we'd=20
            get there too<BR>late for any Saturday caching=20
            <SNIFFLE>.<BR><BR>Steve<BR>Team Tierra Buena<BR>There is a =
very fine=20
            line between "hobby" and "mental illness". --=20
            Dave<BR>Barry<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
5<BR>Date: Thu,=20
            09 Jan 2003 15:38:37 -0700<BR>To: =
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>From:=20
            Scott Wood <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>Subject: RE: =
[Az-Geocaching]=20
            El Camino del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>At 03:02 PM 1/9/2003 -0700, =
you=20
            wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Saturday and stay over, but we're still =
discussing=20
            the additional<BR>&gt;expense. As Judi has t! o work on =
Saturday,=20
            though, we'd get there too<BR>&gt;late for any Saturday =
caching=20
            <SNIFFLE>.<BR><BR>As I said in a previous message, we are =
also=20
            thinking about heading down on <BR>Saturday and finding some =
of the=20
            area caches. Probably won't leave Tucson <BR>too early =
though. If=20
            you do decide to head down Saturday evening, we will =
<BR>have to get=20
            together for a drink.<BR><BR><BR>In=20
            =
liberty,<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>wood@myblueheaven.com<BR>www.myblueheaven.co=
m<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message:=20
            6<BR>From: "Team Tierra Buena"=20
            <TEAMTIERRABUENA@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To:=20
            <LISTSERV@AZGEOCACHING.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
El=20
            Camino del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 =
15:44:20=20
            -0700<BR>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>&gt; I =
am not=20
            sure how many miles it is <BR>&gt; from Welton into <BR>&gt; =
the=20
            caches.<BR><BR>If I'm correctly reading the map the crude =
Fish and=20
            Wildlife service map<BR>I got with the permit, it's =
approximately 32=20
            miles from Wellton to Tule<!
BR>Well, which is fairly near the ECdD cache. Based on everything=20
            I've read<BR>and heard, though, leaving Wellton with =
anything other=20
            than a full tank<BR>of petrol is foolhardy.<BR><BR>Speaking =
of=20
            getting gassed, if we're there Saturday night, you're on =
for<BR>that=20
            drink, Scott!<BR><BR>Steve<BR>Team Tierra Buena<BR>There is =
a very=20
            fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". --=20
            Dave<BR>Barry<BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
7<BR>From:=20
            barry.neely@prudential.com<BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
El Camino=20
            del Diablo Strike Force<BR>To: =
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>Date:=20
            Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:34:48 -0700<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR>When I talked about =
staying=20
            over night Sat I was thinking about doing some<BR>camping. =
We could=20
            drive in on Sat, find a nice base camp, maybe do a =
cache<BR>on Sat=20
            and then the rest on Sunday. Any one=20
            interested??<BR><BR>Hiker<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>"Team =
Tierra Buena"=20
            <BR><TEAMTIERRABUENA@EARTHLINK.NET>To: <LISTSERV@AZGEO!=20
            CACHING.COM><BR>cc: <BR>Sent by: Subject: RE: =
[Az-Geocaching] El=20
            Camino del Diablo Strike Force=20
            <BR>az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching. <BR>com=20
            <BR><BR><BR><BR>Thursday January 9, 2003 03:44 PM <BR>Please =
respond=20
            to listserv <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; I am not sure =
how many=20
            miles it is<BR>&gt; from Welton into<BR>&gt; the =
caches.<BR><BR>If=20
            I'm correctly reading the map the crude Fish and Wildlife =
service=20
            map<BR>I got with the permit, it's approximately 32 miles =
from=20
            Wellton to Tule<BR>Well, which is fairly near the ECdD =
cache. Based=20
            on everything I've read<BR>and heard, though, leaving =
Wellton with=20
            anything other than a full tank<BR>of petrol is=20
            foolhardy.<BR><BR>Speaking of getting gassed, if we're there =

            Saturday night, you're on for<BR>that drink,=20
            Scott!<BR><BR>Steve<BR>Team Tierra Buena<BR>There is a very =
fine=20
            line between "hobby" and "mental illness". --=20
            =
Dave<BR>Barry<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<=
BR>Az-Geocaching=20
            mailing list<BR>l!=20
            =
istserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/list=
info/az-geocaching<BR><BR>Arizona's=20
            Geocaching=20
            =
Resource<BR>http://www.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--=
<BR><BR>Message:=20
            8<BR>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:47:34 -0700<BR>To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>From: Scott Wood=20
            <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El =
Camino=20
            del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>At 09:34 AM 1/10/2003 =
-0700, you=20
            wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;When I talked about staying over night =
Sat I=20
            was thinking about doing some<BR>&gt;camping. We could drive =
in on=20
            Sat, find a nice base camp, maybe do a cache<BR>&gt;on Sat =
and then=20
            the rest on Sunday. Any one interested??<BR><BR>I think our =
camping=20
            will be in a hotel/motel. While I am not opposed to <BR>the =
idea of=20
            camping, we are going to be in the FJ-40 and space is a real =

            <BR>premium, so camping hear will be staying at=20
            home.<BR><BR><BR>Scott<BR>Team My Blue=20
            Heaven<BR>www.myblueheaven.com!=20
            /geocache<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 9<BR>From: =
"Team=20
            Tierra Buena" <TEAMTIERRABUENA@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To:=20
            <LISTSERV@AZGEOCACHING.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
El=20
            Camino del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 =
10:13:03=20
            -0700<BR>Reply-To: =
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;=20
            <BR>&gt; When I talked about staying over night Sat I was =
thinking=20
            <BR>&gt; about doing some camping. We could drive in on Sat, =
find a=20
            <BR>&gt; nice base camp, maybe do a cache on Sat and then =
the rest=20
            on <BR>&gt; Sunday. Any one interested??<BR><BR>I would be, =
but not=20
            as interested as I am uninterested in pitching a<BR>tent at =
9 PM=20
            after driving in the dark for two-and-a-half hours. =
So,<BR>like=20
            Scott, if we come down Saturday, we will be at Camp Ramada=20
            or<BR>something similar.<BR><BR>Steve<BR>Team Tierra =
Buena<BR>There=20
            is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". -- =

            Dave<BR>Barry<BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: =
10<BR>Date:=20
            Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:38:4! 4 -0700<BR>To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR>From: Scott Wood=20
            <WOOD@MYBLUEHEAVEN.COM><BR>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] El =
Camino=20
            del Diablo Strike Force<BR>Reply-To:=20
            listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><BR>At 09:34 AM 1/10/2003 =
-0700, you=20
            wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;When I talked about staying over night =
Sat I=20
            was thinking about doing some<BR>&gt;camping. We could drive =
in on=20
            Sat, find a nice base camp, maybe do a cache<BR>&gt;on Sat =
and then=20
            the rest on Sunday. Any one interested??<BR><BR>Even though =
we won't=20
            be camping, if we do come down on Saturday, we would <BR>be=20
            interested in getting together to find some caches. I =
haven't taken=20
            any <BR>time yet to plan out a possible Saturday cache trip, =
but=20
            will. I have been <BR>busy planning a Sunday/Monday trip to=20
            Phoenix.<BR><BR><BR>In=20
            =
liberty,<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>wood@myblueheaven.com<BR>www.myblueheaven.co=
m<BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>______________________________________=
_________<BR>Az-Geocaching=20
            mailing list<BR>listserv@azgeocaching.com!=20
            =
<BR>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching<BR><B=
R>Arizona's=20
            Geocaching=20
            Resource<BR>http://www.azgeocaching.com<BR><BR><BR><BR>End =
of=20
            Az-Geocaching =
Digest<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <P>
    <HR>
    <FONT face=3Dgeneva size=3D2><B>Join Excite! - <A =
href=3D"http://www.excite.com"=20
    target=3D_blank>http://www.excite.com</A></B><BR>The most =
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