[Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation

WOLFB8 listserv@azgeocaching.com
Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:46:13 -0700


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 bottom line is they were trespassing  private property is just that no =
matter who owns it!!!!

We will be known by the tracks we leave behind
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Mike Ingoglia=20
  To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation


  Let me step back a bit from all political correctness and voice my =
OPINION:

  It's unfortunate about the story of the geocachers being shot at.  =
I've personally met a lot of Navajo people that have a hatred for "white =
people".  These people (not all, but a good number) seem to have a chip =
on their shoulder about "us" taking the land from them.  I've =
experienced this first hand as well as my wife experienced it growing up =
in Page, AZ.  The way I see it, it is the way humans are.  There's not a =
group of people in history that haven't fought over land rights... =
including all the Indians.  Yeah, we've all become more civilized and =
politics prevent it from happening as much these days, but they just =
need to get over it and deal with it... they don't need to be shooting =
at anyone.  If it was up to me, the reservations would become state =
trust lands and the Indians would have to integrate into our society =
rather than segregating themselves from it(sorry, I still have a few =
years until I'm old enough to run for President)  :-).  It's ridiculous =
the free ride our government gives them.  I just love driving (NOT!) =
through the reservation (on the highway) and seeing run-down single =
wides with a satellite dish and a brand new Chevy pickup out front.  I'm =
beginning to believe getting "free rides" is the American way.


    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: mike and gale jett=20
    To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
    Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:18 PM
    Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation


    Two of you wrote

    Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant with the Navajo =
Nation
    >Police Department. He told me that they will not allow any =
geocaches on
    >their lands. If you are caught on their lands without a permit you =
can be
    >arrested. This is just a reminder to please not place any caches on =
tribal
    >lands.=20

    The sergeant had a story to tell about a couple of cacher that wee =
shot at while looking for a cache. When they reported it to him they =
were sited for trespassing and told that if the people wanted to kill =
them they would have.



    I feel the need to defend the Navajo Nation. Some of you may know =
that Mike is Navajo born and raised. His family still lives on the =
reservation. I lived there for 2 years while working for Indian Health =
Service. Lately the tribe has been having a lot of trouble with gangs, a =
lot more than you might think. Part of it has to do with the extreme =
poverty up there as well as unemployment, alcoholism etc. There has also =
been a huge push lately to return to ultra conservative traditional ways =
which some older Navajos would like to take as far as cutting out the =
outside world. That won't ever happen. There are still many rational =
people up there. The upshot is, as long as you treat the Navajo, Hopi, =
or any other tribe with great respect, including laws and their privacy, =
you will be treated the same. Please don't read all of the above and be =
discouraged from visiting the reservations of Arizona. I've done so for =
over 20 years, with and without Mike, and have al! ! ways been treated =
very well. On a side note, Mike and I have been talking about doing an =
event cache in Canyon de Chelly. His family has a homestead ranch in the =
Canyon del Muerto branch beyond where the tourists go. There is a trail =
that leads down to his family's cabin (not a hogan). His family always =
welcomes guests and permits are not needed for friends of the family to =
visit. The views are spectacular. Would people be interested?





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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;bottom line is they were =
trespassing&nbsp;=20
private property is just that no matter who owns it!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We will be known by the tracks we leave behind</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmike@leaplab.com href=3D"mailto:mike@leaplab.com">Mike =
Ingoglia</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 06, =
2003 2:50=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] =
Navajo=20
  Nation</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let me step back a bit from all =
political=20
  correctness&nbsp;and voice my OPINION:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's unfortunate about the story of =
the=20
  geocachers being shot at.&nbsp; I've personally met a lot of Navajo =
people=20
  that have a hatred for "white people".&nbsp; These people&nbsp;(not =
all, but a=20
  good number) seem to have a chip on their shoulder about "us" taking =
the land=20
  from them.&nbsp; I've experienced this first hand as well as my wife=20
  experienced it growing up in Page, AZ.&nbsp; The way I see it, it is =
the way=20
  humans are.&nbsp; There's not a group of people in history that =
haven't fought=20
  over land rights... including all the Indians.&nbsp; Yeah, we've all =
become=20
  more civilized and politics prevent it from happening as much these =
days, but=20
  they just need to get over it and deal with it... they don't need to =
be=20
  shooting at anyone.&nbsp; If it was up to me, the reservations would =
become=20
  state trust lands and the Indians would have to integrate into our =
society=20
  rather than segregating themselves from it(sorry, I still have a few =
years=20
  until I'm old enough to run for President)&nbsp; :-).&nbsp; It's =
ridiculous=20
  the free ride our government gives them.&nbsp; I just love driving =
(NOT!)=20
  through the reservation (on the highway) and seeing run-down single =
wides with=20
  a satellite dish and a brand new Chevy pickup out front.&nbsp; I'm =
beginning=20
  to believe getting "free rides" is the American way.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dsonoralovesmommy@hotmail.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:sonoralovesmommy@hotmail.com">mike and gale jett</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 06, =
2003 12:18=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Az-Geocaching] =
Navajo=20
    Nation</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>Two of you wrote</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant with the =
Navajo=20
    Nation<BR>&gt;Police Department. He told me that they will not allow =
any=20
    geocaches on<BR>&gt;their lands. If you are caught on their lands =
without a=20
    permit you can be<BR>&gt;arrested. This is just a reminder to please =
not=20
    place any caches on tribal<BR>&gt;lands. </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>The sergeant had a =
story to tell=20
    about a couple of cacher that wee shot at while looking for a cache. =
When=20
    they reported it to him they were sited for trespassing and told =
that if the=20
    people wanted to kill them they would have.</FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>
    <P><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <P><FONT color=3D#000000>I feel the need to defend the Navajo =
Nation. Some of=20
    you may know that Mike is Navajo born and raised. His family still =
lives on=20
    the reservation. I lived there for 2 years while working for Indian =
Health=20
    Service. Lately the tribe has been having a lot of trouble with =
gangs, a lot=20
    more than you might think. Part of it has to do with the extreme =
poverty up=20
    there as well as unemployment, alcoholism etc. There has also been a =
huge=20
    push lately to return to ultra conservative traditional ways which =
some=20
    older Navajos would like to take as far as cutting out the outside =
world.=20
    That won't ever happen. There are still many rational people up =
there. The=20
    upshot is, as long as you treat the Navajo, Hopi, or any other tribe =
with=20
    great respect, including laws and their privacy, you will be treated =
the=20
    same. Please don't read all of the above and be discouraged from =
visiting=20
    the reservations of Arizona. I've done so for over 20 years, with =
and=20
    without Mike, and have al! ! ways been treated very well. On a side =
note,=20
    Mike and I have been talking about doing an event cache in Canyon de =
Chelly.=20
    His family has a homestead ranch in the Canyon del Muerto branch =
beyond=20
    where the tourists go. There is a trail that leads down to his =
family's=20
    cabin (not a hogan). His family always welcomes guests and permits =
are not=20
    needed for friends of the family to visit. The views are =
spectacular. Would=20
    people be interested?</P>
    <DIV><BR clear=3Dall></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
    <HR>
    STOP MORE SPAM with <A href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMPENUS/2728">the =
new MSN=20
    8</A> and get 2 months FREE*=20
    ____________________________________________________________ =
Az-Geocaching=20
    mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, =
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    unsubscribe visit:=20
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    Geocaching Resource=20
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