[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
Andrew Ayre
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:30:48 -0700
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Well its quite simple really. The current system (1 star) is IMO inadequate
because is relies on the hider knowing what "handicap accessible" really
means, and lets face it - most people don't have a clue. If you go to the
clayjar cache rating sysem thingmyjig, it describes 1 star as being
wheelchair accessible. This is a perfect example IMO of someone writing an
attempt at a handicap description and not having a clue. People in
wheelchairs can often go further and longer than someone on crutches. IMO
its a crude attempt at finding the "lowest common denominator".
So rather than that, I think hiders should use some kind of guided questions
or format to create an accurate textual (not stars!) description of surface
type, inclines, height of cache off ground, whether you have to reach into a
bush to find it, flat or inclined parking, etc. Armed with this information
handicapped people can make up their own minds whether they can do it with
their particular set of disabilities, and hiders don't have to try and take
into account what little they often know about a massive range of different
limitations that fall under the broad description of "handicapped".
This information is obviously a spoiler for everyone else and could give
away the hiding location in most instances. So this description needs to be
encrypted like the hints or require clicking on a seperate link to view it,
so non-handicapped people can ignore it.
Finally, it should be possible to search based on this description or view
just this description of all the nearest caches on a summary page, so
handicapped people can quickly scan through the list, read and find the ones
they can do - similar to what most of us probably do right now with the
stars to some degree.
Pros: allows handicapped people to quickly identify which caches they can do
and be included more in the fun of geocaching
Cons: takes away some of the fun of finding the cache because the
description will likely give away the location.
This is the best I can come up with. I'll be adding something like this to
the caches I've hidden when I get time.
Background: my wife is handicapped and often requires the use of crutches
and a wheelchair. I have found it very tough to work out which caches we can
do together and so far its been mostly urban ones. Its very dissapointing to
get out in the backcountry to find a cache that should be ok for her on
paper and on topo maps (I use the 3D function, profile function and distance
measuring in Terrain Naviagator to try to assess the terrain) and find that
she cannot do it.
If anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it. Suggesting similar
things to the above idea on the forums at geocaching.com has been a waste of
time based on the responses it gets. IMO geocaching.com falls completely
short of attempting to include handicapped people and I don't think it would
require much effort to implement something (anything!) better.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of gale and
mike
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 4:29 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
[Snipped]
For Andy/Groover/TeamSpike:
As a person with physical limitations (for those of you who have seen me,
I hide them quite well), I appreciate the difficulties in assessing handicap
accessibility on cache pages. If you’ve posted ideas about this in the past
with geocaching.com, how about posting them here so that all future cache
hiders will have an idea of what would help the many handicapped geocachers
in this state. One thing I like is a good description in the cache page (ie
road requires high clearance vehicle, rock scrambling required, fairly level
terrain). I can more readily determine if I can physically attempt the cache
that way than just by sticking the handicap symbol on the easiest terrain
caches. Perhaps we can compile a list of handicapped accessible caches and
have azgeocaching.com note on their website who to contact for an updated
list. I wouldn’t mind being the contact (on another e-mail address).
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>Well=20
its quite simple really. The current system (1 star) is IMO inadequate =
because=20
is relies on the hider knowing what "handicap accessible" really means, =
and lets=20
face it - most people don't have a clue. If you go to the clayjar cache =
rating=20
sysem thingmyjig, it describes 1 star as being wheelchair accessible. =
This is a=20
perfect example IMO of someone writing an attempt at a handicap =
description=20
and not having a clue. People in wheelchairs can often go further and =
longer=20
than someone on crutches. IMO its a crude attempt at finding the "lowest =
common=20
denominator".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>So=20
rather than that, I think hiders should use some kind of guided =
questions or=20
format to create an accurate textual (not stars!) description of surface =
type,=20
inclines, height of cache off ground, whether you have to reach into a =
bush to=20
find it, flat or inclined parking, etc. Armed with this information =
handicapped=20
people can make up their own minds whether they can do it with their =
particular=20
set of disabilities, and hiders don't have to try and take into account =
what=20
little they often know about a massive range of different limitations =
that fall=20
under the broad description of "handicapped".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>This=20
information is obviously a spoiler for everyone else and could give away =
the=20
hiding location in most instances. So this description needs to be =
encrypted=20
like the hints or require clicking on a seperate link to view it, so=20
non-handicapped people can ignore it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>Finally, it should be possible to search =
based on this=20
description or view just this description of all the nearest caches on a =
summary=20
page, so handicapped people can quickly scan through the list, read and =
find the=20
ones they can do - similar to what most of us probably do right now with =
the=20
stars to some degree.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>Pros:=20
allows handicapped people to quickly identify which caches they can do =
and be=20
included more in the fun of geocaching</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>Cons:=20
takes away some of the fun of finding the cache because the description =
will=20
likely give away the location.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D731321415-11042003>This=20
is the best I can come up with. I'll be adding something like this to =
the caches=20
I've hidden when I get time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Background: my wife is handicapped and often requires the use =
of crutches=20
and a wheelchair. I have found it very tough to work out which caches we =
can do=20
together and so far its been mostly urban ones. Its very dissapointing =
to get=20
out in the backcountry to find a cache that should be ok for her on =
paper and on=20
topo maps (I use the 3D function, profile function and distance =
measuring in=20
Terrain Naviagator to try to assess the terrain) and find that she =
cannot do=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>If=20
anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it. Suggesting similar =
things to=20
the above idea on the forums at geocaching.com has been a waste of time =
based on=20
the responses it gets. IMO geocaching.com falls completely short =
of=20
attempting to include handicapped people and I don't think it would =
require much=20
effort to implement something (anything!) better.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Andy<BR><BR> </FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>gale=20
and mike<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 10, 2003 4:29 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Az-Geocaching] Just =
wondering,=20
please no fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>[Snipped]</FONT></SPAN></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in =
0pt"><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">For =
Andy/Groover/TeamSpike:</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">As a person with =
physical=20
limitations (for those of you who have seen me, I hide them quite =
well), I=20
appreciate the difficulties in assessing handicap accessibility on =
cache=20
pages. If you=92ve posted ideas about this in the past with =
geocaching.com, how=20
about posting them here so that all future cache hiders will have an =
idea of=20
what would help the many handicapped geocachers in this state. One =
thing I=20
like is a good description in the cache page (ie road requires high =
clearance=20
vehicle, rock scrambling required, fairly level terrain). I can more =
readily=20
determine if I can physically attempt the cache that way than just by =
sticking=20
the handicap symbol on the easiest terrain caches. Perhaps we can =
compile a=20
list of handicapped accessible caches and have azgeocaching.com note =
on their=20
website who to contact for an updated list. I wouldn=92t mind being =
the contact=20
(on another e-mail address).</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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