[Az-Geocaching] More land unavailable.

[Fred Coe]

Steve & All,

The two agencies are both land management agencies.  Neither overrides the
other.

National Forest System Land is managed by the US Forest Service in the USDA.
National Forests and National Forest System Land is designated and
identified by the President, and I don't think that Congress has to concur
(used to be that way, don't know if it still is).  National Forests (i.e.
Coronado National Forest) are, practically speaking, administrative units to
administer National Forest System Lands.

The Bureau of Land Management is an agency of the USDI (Department of
Interior).  The land they manage is usually described as public lands.
These public lands are what was left over after various other designations
were made by the President and/or Congress (NPS areas, military
reservations, etc.), ceded to the states when they entered the union, or
been moved into private ownership.  In essence, the BLM manages lands that
the government tried for 200 years to get rid of, then decided it might be a
good idea to maintain some of the public domain for use by the public.

The boundary of a National Forest is described in the legal document that
established it--usually an Executive Order in terms of Township and Range (a
'legal' description).  BLM land is described the same way but it is usually
what was leftover after everyone else got their slice of the public domain
pie.  These legal descriptions can be found graphically displayed on the
Master Title Plats available at almost any BLM office.  Use to be (when I
worked for the BLM) that you were welcome to use the microfiche reader to
review the MTPs, but don't expect much help from the staff.  These documents
maybe available on the web now, I don't know.

 Both agencies are of equal stature being agencies of a department.  Both
are multiple use, land management agencies, both have their specific
responsibilities.  The closure orders usually refer to something like:  "All
National Forest Land east of a line blah blah blah is closed to public
entry".     The key is "...National Forest Land...", it refers only to the
National Forest land within the area described.  It does not refer to BLM
land, private land, state land, or any other land in the described area.
Likewise, BLM can not close National Forest System land.  However, they
maybe able to restrict or close access to other agencies land, if that
access is across the closing agencies land.

Probably more public land babble than you cared to hear...

--Fred
Team Boulder Creek
US Forest Service 1989-Present
Bureau of Land Management 1978-1989
National Park Service 1974-1978

----- Original Message -----
From: "Team Tierra Buena" <teamtierrabuena@earthlink.net>
To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] More land unavailable.


> Darren, thanks for the info.
>
> To all: I need some help here. What is the relationship, and who has the
> overriding jurisdiction, between the BLM and the USFS? My specific
> reason for asking is that I read this web page as saying
> (simplistically), "If it's east of the line formed by I-10, Highway 60
> and Highway 93, it's closed". But as I write this, the Forest Service
> Web site http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/fire/ still points to a Tonto NF
> document dated May 20. That document shows, among other exceptions, that
> Tonto west of the Verde
> River is still open. So who's right?
>
> I'm not trying to finger-point or anything. I really don't understand
> the jurisdictional hierarchy. I'm surprised if any public land remains
> open, but I want to understand whether it really is open.
>
> TIA.
>
> Steve
> Team Tierra Buena
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
> > [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On
> > Behalf Of Darren Johnson
> > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 10:54 AM
> > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> > Subject: [Az-Geocaching] More land unavailable.
> >
> >
> > It would seem that even more land had been closed in light of
> > the fires. Cache owners please take note.
> >
>  http://www.az.blm.gov/fire_closed.htm
>
> This is going to be a reallllllyyyy long summer.....
>
> Darren
> Team Imperial Eagle
>
>
>
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