[Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it

Cody Ryan listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 13 Apr 2002 04:42:59


Fred, I enjoyed your commentary.  Especially the part about working in 
Rawlins, Wyoming.  My home town 1976-1988.

Cody #2



>From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it
>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:54:32 -0600
>
>So the stick beating and dragging behind the Jeeps stands!!!  woohoo!!!
>
>Michael
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>Hmmmm,
>
>I guess it is time for me to weigh in on some of these issues.  I usually
>just lurk, particularly on issues relating to the management of public
>lands, since I work for one of the agencies that is often much cussed and
>discussed.  I certainly don't wish to be accused of being 'undercover'....
>
>First, I pretty well figured out that Ranger51 worked for the NPS since I
>first got into Geocaching last January.  It is likely a radio callsign.  It
>would follow what was a pretty standard NPS format, but then it has been
>over 20 years since I worked for the NPS.  I don't think that there was any
>intent to be "undercover", if so, why choose such an obvious link to the
>NPS?
>
>Second, s/he may very well of been given marching orders to remove caches
>located on NPS administered lands.  It may not of been the ranger's choice.
>Often times the field personnel are given direction to do some pretty
>unpopular (even among the staff) things.  This is certainly true in my 
>case.
>On my unit, I was the most vocal and outspoken critic of  the "Recreation
>Fee Demonstration" program implemented on USFS and BLM land (as well as
>raising to astronomical levels <sorry Jim> the entrance fee at the most
>popular National Parks).  What happen?  I was made the "Rec Fee 
>Coordinator"
>.  The outcome?  After a rather lengthy and loud argument concerning "Rec
>Fee" with my supervisor I found myself facing administrative charges for
>engaging in work place violence.  I was suspended for 45 days, demoted, and
>moved into a non-public contact, technical support position.  The only 
>thing
>that saved me from being "separated" (that's fired for those of you who
>don't speak governmentese), were some "extenuating circumstances" (and a
>good, if agressive lawyer).  I'll probably never get another promotion, but
>I've reached the point where I don't really care.  The point?  Sometimes in
>government work you end up having to do things you really don't want to do.
>
>Third, there has been much discussion about working with the local units
>(District Rangers, Recreation Staff, Field Office Managers, etc.).  This
>would be an ideal situation.  And I think it would work well with the USFS,
>BLM, and probably the FWS (opps, US Fish and Wildlife Service).  My
>experience is that those agencies (well, maybe not the FWS) are given more
>autonomy at the field level.  However, since the early '90's, Recreation
>staff officers have been severely reduced.  They are, in my opinion--and I
>have a pretty good idea of what they are expected to do, since I used to be
>one--pretty overworked.  Frequently that have to deal with special uses,
>leases, the mineral program, communication sites, trespass issues, boundary
>adjustments, blah, blah, blah, in addition to the recreation program.
>Many of these programs have received congressional direction--that is
>congress has told us to do it, so it almost always gets done.  That rarely
>leaves much time for administering the recreation program.  Since BLM and
>USFS administered lands are "managed under the principals of multiple use
>and sustained yield" (and, yes, I wish someone would explain what that 
>means
>to me, too) geocaching would seem to be perfectly acceptable activity.  It
>is rare that the NPS deals with these issues--they usually just say no (an
>over simplification, they have the law, not just regulations on their 
>side).
>The point?  Yea, work with the local folks if you can, but often you're
>going to find someone facing other deadlines, doesn't want to increase 
>their
>workload, and if they don't say, "No", right away probably would be happy
>with a "Don't ask, don't tell" relationship.  But make sure you don't draw
>attention to your cache by putting it in a sensitive area.
>
>Fourth,  You can always go over the local folks head.  From the local
>recreation staff you can present your case to the local line officer,  and
>you can keep working your way up the chain.  It is frustrating and can take
>a while.  You can also contact your local congressional delegation, and the
>chairs of the appropriate House and Senate Committees.  This gets very
>risky.  You may in up with something you don't like.  I can visualize a
>whole much of outcomes that result splintering the geocaching community,
>thus giving it an even smaller voice than it has.  But, my experience is
>that the NPS is far more sensitive to congressional inquiries than either
>the USFS or the BLM
>
>Fifth,  I have reviewed a 1997 map of the area in question, and I agree 
>with
>Jim,  I think this cache was at least 500 feet outside the boundary of the
>park.  Unless there was a recent boundary adjustment it looked to be about
>1/10 of a mile out of the park.  If I can get to the BLM office (unlikely 
>as
>busy as I've been) I'll check the MTPs (opps there I go again, that's 
>Master
>Title Plats), kind of the offical US government surveys, they used to be on
>microfiche (sp?), maybe they're on the net now.  Need to look by Township
>and Range....
>
>OK, so who do I work far?  I will mention this at some risk, being a
>government employee doesn't always mean that the First Amendment applies to
>you (I DO speak from experience)....
>
>Coronado National Forest, Radio System Manager (12/2001-Present)
>Cleveland National Forest (San Diego, CA), variety of positions, last Radio
>System Manager (10/1993-12/2002)
>Santa Fe National Forest, Public Affairs Officer (3/1989-10/1993)
>Ridgecrest (CA) RA Office, BLM, Interpretive Specialist (4/1981-3/1989)
>Rawlins (WY), DO BLM, Wilderness Specialist (12/1978-4/1981)
>Jefferson National Expansion Memorial National Historic Site, (what a name
>for the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Ranger, NPS (6/74-12/78)
>and seasonal Park Service jobs while going to college.
>
>FWIW:  I always wanted to work in Civil War battlefields (my degree is in
>Recreation, with a minor in American History), my father wanted me to be an
>EE.  Now I work with radios.  Dad was right....
>
>Note, that I work on radios.  Lotsa radios.  Close to 500 (repeaters, base
>stations, mobiles, and portables) radios. I really don't have anything to 
>do
>about the management of National Forest System lands.  I will probably 
>never
>again be in a position where I can influence management decisions on
>geocaching on Forest Service administered lands.  I'm not sure I would want
>to be in such a position.
>
>My wife and I have used geocaching to learn our new hometown.  We have
>greatly enjoyed it.  Since our home is under construction (well, we're
>having trouble getting a building permit from Pima County, but that's
>another story...) we have not yet placed any caches, but we have some ideas
>and at the end of fire season (which started awful early this year) and 
>when
>our house is completed we hope to be offering some challenges.  We enjoyed
>meeting many cacher's at the "See You as Sus" event, and we look forward to
>other get-togethers.
>
>Team Boulder Creek
>Fred Coe (my wife is Bonnie)
>Coronado-91 (after today maybe Coronado-9 or even CNF Comm-1, who knows?,
>who cares?, my work radio callsign)
>WA0RTO (my amateur radio callsign)
>wa0rto@hotmail.com
>
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