[Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it
Fred Coe
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:30:40 -0700
Cody #2,
It is a small world! I lived at 1011 8th, about a block from the old State
Pen.
My job in Rawlins was when I first navigated cross country looking for
pin-point targets. I located abandoned wellheads in the Adobe Town area,
and a couple of old plane crashes in the Ferris Mountains as part of
wilderness inventory. It would of helped to have had a GPS back then, but
the map and compass worked out well enough for my purposes.
I guess I always remember Rawlins because it's where my first wife left me.
The cultural shock of moving from St. Louis to Rawlins was to much for her
to handle.
Great country and wonderful fishing on the N. Platte, Encampment, and
Sweetwater Rivers.
--Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cody Ryan" <stksrus@hotmail.com>
To: <listserv@azgeocaching.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it
>
> Fred, I enjoyed your commentary. Especially the part about working in
> Rawlins, Wyoming. My home town 1976-1988.
>
> Cody #2
>
>
>
> >From: "Baja Fleg" <fleigle@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> >To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> >Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it
> >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:54:32 -0600
> >
> >So the stick beating and dragging behind the Jeeps stands!!! woohoo!!!
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >----Original Message Follows----
> >Hmmmm,
> >
> >I guess it is time for me to weigh in on some of these issues. I usually
> >just lurk, particularly on issues relating to the management of public
> >lands, since I work for one of the agencies that is often much cussed and
> >discussed. I certainly don't wish to be accused of being
'undercover'....
> >
> >First, I pretty well figured out that Ranger51 worked for the NPS since I
> >first got into Geocaching last January. It is likely a radio callsign.
It
> >would follow what was a pretty standard NPS format, but then it has been
> >over 20 years since I worked for the NPS. I don't think that there was
any
> >intent to be "undercover", if so, why choose such an obvious link to the
> >NPS?
> >
> >Second, s/he may very well of been given marching orders to remove caches
> >located on NPS administered lands. It may not of been the ranger's
choice.
> >Often times the field personnel are given direction to do some pretty
> >unpopular (even among the staff) things. This is certainly true in my
> >case.
> >On my unit, I was the most vocal and outspoken critic of the "Recreation
> >Fee Demonstration" program implemented on USFS and BLM land (as well as
> >raising to astronomical levels <sorry Jim> the entrance fee at the most
> >popular National Parks). What happen? I was made the "Rec Fee
> >Coordinator"
> >. The outcome? After a rather lengthy and loud argument concerning "Rec
> >Fee" with my supervisor I found myself facing administrative charges for
> >engaging in work place violence. I was suspended for 45 days, demoted,
and
> >moved into a non-public contact, technical support position. The only
> >thing
> >that saved me from being "separated" (that's fired for those of you who
> >don't speak governmentese), were some "extenuating circumstances" (and a
> >good, if agressive lawyer). I'll probably never get another promotion,
but
> >I've reached the point where I don't really care. The point? Sometimes
in
> >government work you end up having to do things you really don't want to
do.
> >
> >Third, there has been much discussion about working with the local units
> >(District Rangers, Recreation Staff, Field Office Managers, etc.). This
> >would be an ideal situation. And I think it would work well with the
USFS,
> >BLM, and probably the FWS (opps, US Fish and Wildlife Service). My
> >experience is that those agencies (well, maybe not the FWS) are given
more
> >autonomy at the field level. However, since the early '90's, Recreation
> >staff officers have been severely reduced. They are, in my opinion--and
I
> >have a pretty good idea of what they are expected to do, since I used to
be
> >one--pretty overworked. Frequently that have to deal with special uses,
> >leases, the mineral program, communication sites, trespass issues,
boundary
> >adjustments, blah, blah, blah, in addition to the recreation program.
> >Many of these programs have received congressional direction--that is
> >congress has told us to do it, so it almost always gets done. That
rarely
> >leaves much time for administering the recreation program. Since BLM and
> >USFS administered lands are "managed under the principals of multiple use
> >and sustained yield" (and, yes, I wish someone would explain what that
> >means
> >to me, too) geocaching would seem to be perfectly acceptable activity.
It
> >is rare that the NPS deals with these issues--they usually just say no
(an
> >over simplification, they have the law, not just regulations on their
> >side).
> >The point? Yea, work with the local folks if you can, but often you're
> >going to find someone facing other deadlines, doesn't want to increase
> >their
> >workload, and if they don't say, "No", right away probably would be happy
> >with a "Don't ask, don't tell" relationship. But make sure you don't
draw
> >attention to your cache by putting it in a sensitive area.
> >
> >Fourth, You can always go over the local folks head. From the local
> >recreation staff you can present your case to the local line officer,
and
> >you can keep working your way up the chain. It is frustrating and can
take
> >a while. You can also contact your local congressional delegation, and
the
> >chairs of the appropriate House and Senate Committees. This gets very
> >risky. You may in up with something you don't like. I can visualize a
> >whole much of outcomes that result splintering the geocaching community,
> >thus giving it an even smaller voice than it has. But, my experience is
> >that the NPS is far more sensitive to congressional inquiries than either
> >the USFS or the BLM
> >
> >Fifth, I have reviewed a 1997 map of the area in question, and I agree
> >with
> >Jim, I think this cache was at least 500 feet outside the boundary of
the
> >park. Unless there was a recent boundary adjustment it looked to be
about
> >1/10 of a mile out of the park. If I can get to the BLM office (unlikely
> >as
> >busy as I've been) I'll check the MTPs (opps there I go again, that's
> >Master
> >Title Plats), kind of the offical US government surveys, they used to be
on
> >microfiche (sp?), maybe they're on the net now. Need to look by Township
> >and Range....
> >
> >OK, so who do I work far? I will mention this at some risk, being a
> >government employee doesn't always mean that the First Amendment applies
to
> >you (I DO speak from experience)....
> >
> >Coronado National Forest, Radio System Manager (12/2001-Present)
> >Cleveland National Forest (San Diego, CA), variety of positions, last
Radio
> >System Manager (10/1993-12/2002)
> >Santa Fe National Forest, Public Affairs Officer (3/1989-10/1993)
> >Ridgecrest (CA) RA Office, BLM, Interpretive Specialist (4/1981-3/1989)
> >Rawlins (WY), DO BLM, Wilderness Specialist (12/1978-4/1981)
> >Jefferson National Expansion Memorial National Historic Site, (what a
name
> >for the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Ranger, NPS (6/74-12/78)
> >and seasonal Park Service jobs while going to college.
> >
> >FWIW: I always wanted to work in Civil War battlefields (my degree is in
> >Recreation, with a minor in American History), my father wanted me to be
an
> >EE. Now I work with radios. Dad was right....
> >
> >Note, that I work on radios. Lotsa radios. Close to 500 (repeaters,
base
> >stations, mobiles, and portables) radios. I really don't have anything to
> >do
> >about the management of National Forest System lands. I will probably
> >never
> >again be in a position where I can influence management decisions on
> >geocaching on Forest Service administered lands. I'm not sure I would
want
> >to be in such a position.
> >
> >My wife and I have used geocaching to learn our new hometown. We have
> >greatly enjoyed it. Since our home is under construction (well, we're
> >having trouble getting a building permit from Pima County, but that's
> >another story...) we have not yet placed any caches, but we have some
ideas
> >and at the end of fire season (which started awful early this year) and
> >when
> >our house is completed we hope to be offering some challenges. We
enjoyed
> >meeting many cacher's at the "See You as Sus" event, and we look forward
to
> >other get-togethers.
> >
> >Team Boulder Creek
> >Fred Coe (my wife is Bonnie)
> >Coronado-91 (after today maybe Coronado-9 or even CNF Comm-1, who knows?,
> >who cares?, my work radio callsign)
> >WA0RTO (my amateur radio callsign)
> >wa0rto@hotmail.com
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
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> >http://www.azgeocaching.com
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
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