[Az-Geocaching] Re: If It's Not a Find, What Is It Then?

[Scott Sparks]

>I think it's safe to say that the consensus on this list is that you've
>got to sign the log to log the find. But if you don't get to sign the
>log, what then?
> 
>Say you get to the cache site, you can physically see the container, but
>you can't get to it because it's surrounded by bees? Or say you can
>physically hold the container in your hands, but you're too weak and/or
>too stupid to figure out how to open it, and there's no indication on
>the cache page that there's any kind of trick or puzzle to get the cache
>open? Or say you go back to the same cache site four times before you
>finally find the container?


These situations made me smile.  As for bees, they tend to be attracted to me like... um... bees to honey.  When stung, I usually have a mild allergic reaction but, nothing life threatening (I don't think.) I understand that others are highly allergic to bee stings and I am in no way suggesting they should take the risk of being stung. Even so, I've never let bees stop me from logging a cache. A couple of examples are GC43A2 A Flat Spot <http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=3e3c6364-79be-4ae7-a2ce-142071a1c3a2> and GCDB28 Billsville <http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=1b08d9cb-9264-466e-91bd-d39f5c258a1e>.  

I remember how difficult Tubular-1 was to open, as well as many others but, where there's a will there's a way.  Some caches have required that I return with them to my vehicle to use pliers, screwdrivers or other tools to open them.  The only time I was unable to open a container was with one that had a padlock on it.  It was a puzzle cache and I was so excited about solving the puzzle, I had forgotten to record the combination to the lock that was listed in the decription.  That didn't stop me from logging it though, I walked the 3/4 mile back to my truck, drove the thirty-odd miles home, got the combination, opened the cache, signed the log and then drove back to the location, walked the 3/4 mile back to the hiding spot and re-hid the cache.  Ordinarily, I wouldn't recommend removing a cache from it's hiding place, out of respect for others who might be searching for it, but this was a cache that was only logged once every month or two.  I figured the odds of someone searching for it during the time I had it were pretty slim.

As for multiple searches at the same location, I usually handle it like this:
 For the first failed attempt, I log a No-Find.  Subsequent failed attempts get a new log with a Note.  If and when I finally find the cache I post a separate log as a Find.  There are numerous times when I have posted No-Finds, Notes and Find logs for the same cache all in the same day, sometimes only minutes apart (usually with my Log-Chain Adventures(tm).)  I  feel it is important to the cache owner and other cachers to keep a record of all your activities at the cache site.  Editing of logs and 'updates' just confuse the history of the cache.  For example, if I post a No-Find on April 1st and then find the cache on June 1st, I wouldn't edit the April 1st log as a find since I didn't find it on that date. On the other hand, If I copy and paste the old log into a new find log on June 1st, and then delete the old log, it also isn't an actual reflection of the cache activity, even if I include dates in the log.  When I review the history of a cache, I look at the dates and type of the logs first.  I don't have time to read every single log of every cache.
Steve (AZCachemeister) made a good point on why it is important not to edit logs-- the cache owner doesn't get notified when a log is modified.

 The only time I might not post an initial No-Find log is if I am unable to actually search for a cache.  For example, you arrive near the coordinates but there is a parade  going on and they are marching right through the area.  In that case I would post a Note and indicate in it that I was there but didn't really get a chance to search.  


>But what's wrong with posting a DNF instead of a note?  There's no shame in it.  Look at Sprocket.   

Ummm... I'm flattered... I think?  :-[ 

>One cache we found the container, had it in our hands, and in our truck. Neither one of us could get the blasted thing open. It turns out the container was broken and the cache owner verified later on that it was broken. For that cache, out of desperation (our fourth attempt at it) we logged a find. We also plainly stated that if the owner wants to delete our log, ask us to change it, or have us sign it later on, we would. I got a reply from the owner stating that we could claim the find. That is the only time that we have claimed a find and not signed the log. Even recently, we found where a cache was (since there was a note from the cache thief in its place) and we chose to log a DNF instead of a find. We felt that for the first cache, that we would have signed it if we could have gotten it open. We spent a good 15 minutes to half an hour trying to get it open. 

As I wrote a few days ago, I think there are some situations where the cache seeker ought to get some credit for the effort he/she puts into his search.  In the case of misssing, damaged or muggled caches, I think it should be handled on a case by case basis.  If you think you ought to be able to claim a find, by all means notify the owner with what you found and state your case.  If he/she agrees, go for it.  If not, it's just a game.



>Copy the old log information. Delete it. Make a new log and paste the
>information from the previous log along with the new attempt.
>
>Best of both worlds, you get to keep the notification and keep the log
>history in one log.


Here's a better idea:
Copy the old log information.
LEAVE THAT LOG INTACT!
Make a new log and paste the information from the previous log with the new attempt.


That way, you have owner notification, you have the history in one log (the new one) and the original log is still in it's proper place in the chronological history of the cache where it belongs.

Of course, using this method, some people wouldn't be able to maintain their supposed 100% find ratios on the azgeocaching.com stats page. ;-) 

-- Sprocket


Oh, one final thought.  As already stated by others here, not having a working pen/pencil is no reason for not signing the log.   Every cacher worth his salt should carry his own pen/pencil, if nothing else. 

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