[Az-Geocaching] people "Finding" a cache that wasn't there.

[Roping The Wind]

>From: "ShadowAce" <hunting at shakabruddah.com>
>Reply-To: listserv at azgeocaching.com
>To: <listserv at azgeocaching.com>
>Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] people "Finding" a cache that wasn't there.
>Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:11:13 -0700
>
>That was exactly the habit I was refering to.. I never used to see this, 
>now
>I see it more and more often.
>
>Cache owners choice at this point. You can allow them to keep the 'Finds' 
>or
>you can remove there finds.
>
>I know a lot of cachers will say deleting the find is evil and wrong. "You
>have no right to remove a find" but I would respond with Geocaching.com 
>says
>find the container, sign the logbook.
>
>These people should have writing a DNF, a Note, or even a Should be
>archived. But there is log, there is no container, there is no find.  Just
>remember though, if you say its ok for them to keep the finds then you will
>have no reason to be upset when it gets to the "I got to the parking lot,
>thanks for the find" type of logs.
>
>Myself, I would email the cacher and explain why I was deleting the found
>log.
>
>
>ShadowAce


I dont beleive there is anything wrong with deleting a 'find' log if they 
didnt sign the logbook. Doesnt the basic rules on GC.com say "sign the 
logbook...."?

A couple of scenario's:

first one: there are so many urban caches out there these days that have 
very creative hiding methods. Some are right out in the open, but are 
disquised as something else. If a cacher posts a 'find' log that reads:  saw 
the cache, but couldnt sign it as there were too many people around"...  Do 
you think that should be a 'find'? Some of these urban caches, the challenge 
isnt finding the cache, it is getting to the cache, signing the 
logbook/sheet and putting it back without being seen by muggles.

Here is another scenario I recently saw:

The cache.... Dark Hallow (GCK14N).... it is in Fountain Hills. There are a 
bunch of no find logs on it as of late. The last 'find' log on it read: saw 
the cache, but it was too deep in the hole to get to it". This log was 
claimed as a 'find'. I searched for that cache and I put my arm way into 
that hole and I didnt feel anything. I dont think it can be that far down. 
It isnt that deep of a hole. If this cacher saw it, he could have retreived 
it. Alot of the no find logs stated that 'perhaps' it is too deep and they 
just couldnt see it. So, the last find log probably figured he could claim a 
find on it saying he saw it but couldnt retrieve it, although the fact is 
the cache MIGHT not be there. But, I wasnt there. Maybe he did see it. Who 
am I to say. :/

If someone chooses to claim a find log on a cache that either is not there 
or they just couldnt get to it, but saw it... well, they are only cheating 
themselves. However, if it was one of my caches... I WOULD DELETE THE LOG. 
NO LOG, NO FIND. Period. I guess I am just old school. But, that is how I 
have played the game with every one of my 1449 cache finds. I made it very 
clear on my cache description pages "no log, no find". I even went as far to 
say that 'there are two pens in the cache, but bring your own just in case 
these ones dont work.. no log, no find!". In my opinion, if the name isn't 
in the book, I can only beleive that they didn't find it. Anyone who has 
found one of my caches knows they are tough climbs/hikes. I certainly would 
hate for someone to get up there and not be able to sign the log. So I made 
it clear in the cache description to bring an extra pen.. just in case!

What is most disturbing to me is when I have to make 3 or 4 (or more!) 
visits to a cache (usually an urban cache) because I couldnt give it a good 
look or perhaps I even saw the cache, but wasnt able to get to it without 
giving the cache away to muggles. So, I opted to return for another visit. I 
have done this many times. Then, I later see a 'find' log by someone stating 
they saw the cache, but couldnt retreive it as too many people were around 
(or something like that) and yet still claimed it as a find.

YOU are the owner of the cache and you have to make the decision of whether 
to delete the log or not. Your decision is final. If they dont like the fact 
you deleted their log..... that's life. They will get over it! Chances are, 
deep down inside, they will not really care. But, will just want to make a 
big fuss out of it. They arent really geocachers anyways. A TRUE geocacher 
would not cheat themselves out of a legitimate find. They will not say they 
found it when the didnt. They wouldnt replace it with another container (as 
we have seen as of late), because either the original was missing or they 
just couldnt find it. They simply would not make excuses. They will find the 
cache and they will sign the logbook.

Scott
Team Ropingthewind