[Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long]

Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:00:07 -0700

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Besides posting this on the azgeocaching.com mailing list, I am copying =
Mary
Estes, who heads up the Site Steward program, and arranged and =
facilitated
last night's meeting. I hope that others who attended the meeting will =
also
post their impressions and opinions, particularly where they disagree =
with
my views.

=20

The Geocaching community was represented by Marc and Julie (Tamo's
Clan'Destiny), Brian (Team Snaptek and azgeocaching.com), Christy and =
Joe
(Pet Posse), Mark (Highway Havoc), Bob Renner (Bob Renner), and me. (Did =
I
forget anyone? My apologies if I did. Lately my memory cells seem to be
flaking off faster than my dandruff.) The land management agencies
represented included the State Historic Preservation Office (which =
sponsors
the Site Steward program), City of Phoenix, City of Scottsdale, Maricopa
County, Bureau of Land Management, Tonto National Forest, and the Kofa
National Wildlife Refuge outside of Yuma.

=20

I think the atmosphere was very different from the meeting that was held =
a
year ago. I believe this is due to the fact that the land managers =
recognize
that most Geocachers want to practice our recreation in a responsible
fashion, and that we have done and continue to do what we can as a =
"virtual
community" to educate others in what our responsibilities are. I would =
go so
far as to say that every land management representative in attendance
recognizes the positives in an activity such as Geocaching, and they are
willing to support it insofar as it doesn't conflict with the =
regulations of
their respective agencies (and we have to remember that every paid land
management representative at that meeting gets their pay from some
government agency or other).

=20

I've preached this before here, but it was said repeatedly last night: =
The
best thing we can do to prevent problems is to obtain permission before
placing a cache. That's not always the easiest thing in the world to do, =
and
everyone in attendance recognized that. The issues range from trying to
figure out which agency is responsible for the area where you want to =
place
the cache, to finding our what that agency's rules are, to finding =
someone
who actually knows what you're talking about and can help you. But it's
worth the effort.

=20

Everyone also seems to be aware that not every Geocacher in Arizona
subscribes to this mailing list, or is even aware that azgeocaching.com
exists, and that people, particularly newcomers, may go off more in
ignorance than anything else and do something that they shouldn't. I =
think
it is up to us to do what we can to let new cachers know about resources
such as this mailing list and web site. Brian stated that he would be
updating the links on the web site to reflect some of the new Geocaching
policies we have received (and I'll get you the BLM policy tomorrow, =
Brian).
And we hope to be able to put together a starter list of permission =
contacts
for those agencies where we have them.

=20

This seems like a good time to remind everyone of what we came up with =
after
last year's meeting, which got dubbed "Geo-mentoring". If you own a =
cache,
and get a log entry from someone who is relatively new (based on their =
find
count), why not drop them a note welcoming them to Geocaching and =
letting
them know about azgeocaching.com and the listserv? If anyone would like =
a
copy of the boilerplate I use for this, drop me an email.

=20

Random notes: The Phoenix Preserve sounds as though they are going to be
enforcing their "no off-trail" policy more strictly. I don't have my =
copy of
the policy with me here, but everyone who attended got a copy, so I hope
someone will post it in short order.

=20

Tonto National Forest continues to welcome Geocaching, except in =
designated
wilderness areas and anywhere that would threaten an archaeological =
site. It
is for the latter reason that they "suggest but do not require" that you
contact the appropriate District Office before you place a cache within
Tonto.

=20

One item that saddened me a little was that Maricopa County Parks and
Recreation announced that they are going to be updating their Geocaching
policy and eliminate the "two-mile rule". But since they want permission
from the Park Supervisor for any caches placed within their parks, I =
think
it might still be possible to work with them if you have a good location
that's far enough back from the trailhead and not too far (whatever that
means) off the trail. It was nice to hear that the Pet Posse are working
with the county staff to see if they might be able to implement a =
reduced
"geocaching-only entrance fee".=20

=20

Kofa NWR has some concerns about some specific caches already placed =
within
the Refuge, but Susana Henry, the representative from Kofa, told me she
would look into them individually herself. Again, she does not appear to =
be
opposed to caches within the Refuge, so I would advise anyone planning =
on
placing a cache down there to contact her at the refuge first.

=20

The question was raised about obtaining land management permission for
virtual caches (the question of whether we can obtain permission for =
virtual
caches from The Powers What Am at geoaching.com is a separate issue and
irrelevant to this discussion). There are several perspectives on this =
from
the land management side, but my sense of the consensus was that if the
virtual is located in a maintained public place that permission would =
not be
necessary, but if the site is off trail or similar than permission =
should be
requested (although personally I still wouldn't attempt to place a =
virtual
at the Deer Valley Rock Art Center).=20

=20

Finally, we decided to try something new when we next have a meeting =
such as
this. Since the next best thing we can do (other than getting permission =
for
caches) is to spread the gospel of Responsible Geocaching and educate =
new
cachers, we are going to set up the next meeting as an event cache, and
actively seek newer Geocachers as attendees. We will have a lot of =
details
to work out over the next several months, from content to whether we =
will
need to limit attendance, but as it comes together I'll keep you posted.
Don't be surprised if it's a year off, though.

=20

What pleases me most about the above idea (which came from Mary Estes) =
is
that it seems to indicate that most land managers no longer see =
Geocaching
as merely a threat against the lands they manage (a sardonic "thanks =
again"
to Christina Leonard of the "Republic" for originally provoking that
attitude), but rather as an activity that with some exceptions does have =
a
beneficial place on public lands.

=20

My heartfelt thanks to everyone who attended, cachers and land managers
alike.

=20

Steve

Team Tierra Buena

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<div class=3DSection1>

Besides posting this on the azgeocaching.com mailing =
list, I
am copying Mary Estes, who heads up the Site Steward program, and =
arranged and
facilitated last night's meeting. I hope that others who attended the =
meeting
will also post their impressions and opinions, particularly where they =
disagree
with my views.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

The Geocaching community was represented by Marc and =
Julie (Tamo's
Clan'Destiny), Brian (Team Snaptek and azgeocaching.com), Christy and =
Joe (Pet
Posse), Mark (Highway Havoc), Bob =
Renner (Bob =
Renner), and me.
(Did I forget anyone? My apologies if I did. Lately my memory cells seem =
to be
flaking off faster than my dandruff.) The land management agencies =
represented
included the State Historic Preservation Office (which sponsors the Site
Steward program), City of Phoenix, City =
of Scottsdale<fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DArial>, Maricopa County, Bureau of
Land Management, Tonto National =
Forest, and the Kofa
National Wildlife Refuge outside of Yuma.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

I think the atmosphere was very different from the =
meeting
that was held a year ago. I believe this is due to the fact that the =
land
managers recognize that most Geocachers want to practice our recreation =
in a
responsible fashion, and that we have done and continue to do what we =
can as a
&quot;virtual community&quot; to educate others in what our =
responsibilities
are. I would go so far as to say that every land management =
representative in
attendance recognizes the positives in an activity such as Geocaching, =
and they
are willing to support it insofar as it doesn't conflict with the =
regulations
of their respective agencies (and we have to remember that every paid =
land
management representative at that meeting gets their pay from some =
government
agency or other).

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

I've preached this before here, but it was said =
repeatedly
last night: The best thing we can do to prevent problems is to obtain
permission before placing a cache. That's not always the easiest thing =
in the
world to do, and everyone in attendance recognized that. The issues =
range from
trying to figure out which agency is responsible for the area where you =
want to
place the cache, to finding our what that agency's rules are, to finding
someone who actually knows what you're talking about and can help you. =
But it's
worth the effort.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

Everyone also seems to be aware that not every =
Geocacher in Arizona subscribes
to this mailing list, or is even aware that azgeocaching.com exists, and =
that
people, particularly newcomers, may go off more in ignorance than =
anything else
and do something that they shouldn't. I think it is up to us to do what =
we can
to let new cachers know about resources such as this mailing list and =
web site.
Brian stated that he would be updating the links on the web site to =
reflect
some of the new Geocaching policies we have received (and I'll get you =
the BLM
policy tomorrow, Brian). And we hope to be able to put together a =
starter list
of permission contacts for those agencies where we have =
them.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

This seems like a good time to remind everyone of =
what we
came up with after last year's meeting, which got dubbed
&quot;Geo-mentoring&quot;. If you own a cache, and get a log entry from =
someone
who is relatively new (based on their find count), why not drop them a =
note
welcoming them to Geocaching and letting them know about =
azgeocaching.com and
the listserv? If anyone would like a copy of the boilerplate I use for =
this,
drop me an email.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

Random notes: The Phoenix Preserve sounds as though =
they are
going to be enforcing their &quot;no off-trail&quot; policy more =
strictly. I
don't have my copy of the policy with me here, but everyone who attended =
got a
copy, so I hope someone will post it in short order.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

Tonto National =
Forest continues
to welcome Geocaching, except in designated wilderness areas and =
anywhere that
would threaten an archaeological site. It is for the latter reason that =
they
&quot;suggest but do not require&quot; that you contact the appropriate
District Office before you place a cache within Tonto.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

One item that saddened me a little was that =
Maricopa County Parks and
Recreation announced that they are going to be updating their Geocaching =
policy
and eliminate the &quot;two-mile rule&quot;. But since they want =
permission
from the Park Supervisor for any caches placed within their parks, I =
think it
might still be possible to work with them if you have a good location =
that's
far enough back from the trailhead and not too far (whatever that means) =
off
the trail. It was nice to hear that the Pet Posse are working with the =
county
staff to see if they might be able to implement a reduced =
&quot;geocaching-only
entrance fee&quot;.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

Kofa NWR has some concerns about some specific caches
already placed within the Refuge, but Susana Henry, the representative =
from Kofa,
told me she would look into them individually herself. Again, she does =
not
appear to be opposed to caches within the Refuge, so I would advise =
anyone
planning on placing a cache down there to contact her at the refuge =
first.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

The question was raised about obtaining land =
management
permission for virtual caches (the question of whether we can obtain =
permission
for virtual caches from The Powers What Am at geoaching.com is a =
separate issue
and irrelevant to this discussion). There are several perspectives on =
this from
the land management side, but my sense of the consensus was that if the =
virtual
is located in a maintained public place that permission would not be =
necessary,
but if the site is off trail or similar than permission should be =
requested
(although personally I still wouldn't attempt to place a virtual at the =
Deer
Valley Rock Art Center).

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

Finally, we decided to try something new when we next =
have a
meeting such as this. Since the next best thing we can do (other than =
getting
permission for caches) is to spread the gospel of Responsible Geocaching =
and
educate new cachers, we are going to set up the next meeting as an event =
cache,
and actively seek newer Geocachers as attendees. We will have a lot of =
details
to work out over the next several months, from content to whether we =
will need to
limit attendance, but as it comes together I'll keep you posted. Don't =
be
surprised if it's a year off, though.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>What pleases me most about the above idea (which came =
from
Mary Estes) is that it seems to indicate that most land managers no =
longer see
Geocaching as merely a threat against the lands they manage (a sardonic
&quot;thanks again&quot; to Christina Leonard of the =
&quot;Republic&quot; for
originally provoking that attitude), but rather as an activity that with =
some
exceptions does have a beneficial place on public =
lands.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My heartfelt thanks to everyone who attended, cachers =
and
land managers alike.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Steve</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Team Tierra Buena</span></font></p>

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