[Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different Folks

Jeff Moriarty listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:05:34 -0700


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Brian,

I appreciate your reply, but you might want to go back and re-read my =
original message. =20

First, I said "attitude of some of the Geocachers in this state", not =
all.  I have emailed and met several fellow cachers on the trails, and =
some of them are great.  Others not so much.

Second, please note that I was replying directly to Brian LaFrance, not =
Mark, the original poster.  It was Brian who suggested deceiving Jeremy =
by changing the cache after posting it, and it pissed me off.  I have no =
problem with Adults Caches, but you, Brian, Mark, and I don't have the =
right to override their final decision on the matter.  I have no problem =
with Mark's approach, and liked that he posted the cache info in this =
forum for interested parties.  In my original post I even said "if you =
disagree with Geocaching.com's decision then discuss it, plead your =
case, etc.," so I don't understand why you felt I said anything to the =
contrary.  My argument was simply that if you don't like =
Geocaching.com's policy the one thing you should NOT do is deceive them =
about it.

I stand by my assertation that you should be ashamed of yourself for not =
being a charter member if you have found more than 20 caches.  According =
to the Geocaching.com site you have found 205 caches and hidden 3, and =
you have done absolutely nothing to support Geocaching.com for all the =
entertainment you have had.  Who do you think pays for their =
electricity?  Their computers?  Internet connections?  They need to pay =
their bills or they will shut down.  They are not a charity.  This isn't =
about Member Caches.  I am a charter member and don't care for the idea, =
either.  This is about people using their service and not paying for it. =
 So since people like you who frequently use Geocaching.com won't carry =
your share, they are raising the rates for the people who DO pay.  So I =
get to pay for your entertainment.  Thanks a lot.

Jeff.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Brian Casteel=20
  To: az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Caches - Different Strokes For Different =
Folks


  Jeff,

  [soapbox]
  You've struck a chord with me, so therefore, I'll bite.  First I'll =
start by asking you if you've been to any of the geocaching 'event' =
caches, such as the Potluck Picnic Cache put on by ChicksWithTrucks not =
too long ago, or the one in Tucson (the name slips my mind) a few months =
later.  To have done so, you would know a great number of the cachers in =
the metro Phoenix area, and not just the 'elite' at the top of the list. =
 All I have to say about them is that their need to overturn rocks in =
this state far exceeds mine.  :) Say what you will about our =
'attitudes', but know this.  The purpose of a mailing list such as this =
is to voice OPINIONS on the sport of geocaching, different caches, or =
geocachers in general (as long as the tone doesn't change to one that =
implies a personal attack).  I would venture to say I didn't appreciate =
your attitude in accusing geocachers in Arizona of having 'attitude' (an =
attitude about what, you failed to specify). =20

  Now, I agree that Jeremy is the Admin of geocaching.com, the =
originating point of the sport, and that he has the right to allow/deny =
any caches he sees fit.  If by chance we don't agree with his reasons, =
who are you to say that we shouldn't voice our opinions on the matter in =
a forum completely independent (and IMO is far more efficient at =
managing information for quick retrieval) of geocaching.com?  As for the =
'right' to circumvent the rules, who's to say that creating a cache and =
linking to it from another place would circumvent anything?  =
Geocaching.com is not the be all end all, and Jeremy has no right to =
govern caching activities in any location.  But, he does have the right =
to admin his own site and refuse any caches for the reason he sees fit.  =
Granted, if we don't like the reason, hopefully there is room for =
dialogue to work out an alternative or come to some sort of middle =
ground.

  Charter Memberships....

  In some ways I support it, and others I don't.  Members Only caches =
have a snooty elitism about them, in my opinion.  For that reason alone, =
I will not buy a charter membership.  Fortunately for us, we have the =
Snaptek gurus who have put together a very rich pool of information to =
prepare for caching, which as I said before, is more efficient and user =
friendly than what I've seen at geocaching.com.  My reasons for not =
getting one at this time are valid and legitimate, and I choose not to =
share those in this arena.  So please do us all a favor and present your =
ideas a little less abrasively in the future.  I'm sure mine will not be =
the only message in response to your accusatory toned argument.

  Finally, who says the cache placers were not being adult in their =
response to the denial?  I see both sides of the situation and support =
both for different reasons.  However, there should be a dialogue between =
them and Jeremy in order to come to a resolution that satisfies both.  =
In fact, after barking at them about how they acted, it just so happens =
that they borrowed your recommendation and posted the info somewhere =
independent of geocaching.com.  Now I'm confused.  You vented about =
something another geocacher did, then offered the solution they already =
implemented....  Ugh
  [/soapbox]

  Brian
  Team A.I.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I appreciate your reply, but you might =
want to go=20
back and re-read my original message.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First,&nbsp;I said "attitude of some of =
the=20
Geocachers in this state", not all.&nbsp; I have emailed and met several =
fellow=20
cachers on the trails, and some of them are great.&nbsp; Others not so=20
much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second, please note that I was=20
replying&nbsp;directly to Brian LaFrance, not Mark, the original =
poster.&nbsp;=20
It was Brian who suggested deceiving Jeremy by changing the cache after =
posting=20
it, and it pissed me off.&nbsp; I have no problem with Adults Caches, =
but you,=20
Brian, Mark, and I don't have the right to override their final decision =
on the=20
matter.&nbsp; I have no problem with Mark's approach, and liked that he =
posted=20
the cache info in this forum for interested parties.&nbsp; In my =
original=20
post&nbsp;I even said "if you disagree with Geocaching.com's decision=20
then&nbsp;discuss it, plead your case, etc.," so I don't understand why =
you felt=20
I said anything to the contrary.&nbsp; My argument was simply that if =
you don't=20
like Geocaching.com's policy the one thing you should NOT do is deceive =
them=20
about it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I stand by my assertation that you =
should be=20
ashamed of yourself for not being a charter member if you have found =
more than=20
20 caches.&nbsp; According to the Geocaching.com site you have found 205 =
caches=20
and hidden 3, and you have done absolutely nothing to support =
Geocaching.com for=20
all the entertainment you have had.&nbsp; Who do you think pays for =
their=20
electricity?&nbsp; Their computers?&nbsp; Internet connections?&nbsp; =
They need=20
to pay their bills or they will shut down.&nbsp; They are not a =
charity.&nbsp;=20
This isn't about Member Caches.&nbsp; I am a charter member and don't =
care for=20
the idea, either.&nbsp; This is about people using their service and not =
paying=20
for it.&nbsp; So since people like you who frequently use Geocaching.com =
won't=20
carry your share, they are raising the rates for the people who DO =
pay.&nbsp; So=20
I get to pay for your entertainment.&nbsp; Thanks a lot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbcasteel@cox.net href=3D"mailto:bcasteel@cox.net">Brian =
Casteel</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3Daz-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com">az-geocaching@lis=
tserv.azgeocaching.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 11, =
2003 4:10=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] =
Caches -=20
  Different Strokes For Different Folks</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[soapbox]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You've struck a chord with me, so =
therefore, I'll=20
  bite.&nbsp; First I'll start by asking you if you've been to any of =
the=20
  geocaching 'event' caches, such as the Potluck Picnic Cache put on by=20
  ChicksWithTrucks not too long ago, or the one in Tucson (the name =
slips my=20
  mind) a few months later.&nbsp; To have done so, you would know a =
great number=20
  of the cachers in the metro Phoenix area, and not just the 'elite' at =
the top=20
  of the list.&nbsp; All I have to say about them is that their need to =
overturn=20
  rocks in this state far exceeds mine.&nbsp; :) Say what you will about =
our=20
  'attitudes', but know this.&nbsp; The purpose of a mailing list such =
as this=20
  is to voice OPINIONS on the sport of geocaching, different caches, or=20
  geocachers in general (as long as the tone doesn't change to one that =
implies=20
  a personal attack).&nbsp; I would venture to say I didn't appreciate =
your=20
  attitude in accusing geocachers in Arizona of having 'attitude' (an =
attitude=20
  about what, you failed to specify).&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now, I agree that Jeremy is the Admin =
of=20
  geocaching.com, the originating point of the sport, and that he has =
the right=20
  to allow/deny any caches he sees fit.&nbsp; If by chance we don't =
agree with=20
  his reasons, who are you to say that we shouldn't voice our opinions =
on the=20
  matter in a forum completely independent (and IMO is far more =
efficient at=20
  managing information for quick retrieval) of geocaching.com?&nbsp; As =
for the=20
  'right' to circumvent the rules, who's to say that creating a cache =
and=20
  linking to it from another place would circumvent anything?&nbsp;=20
  Geocaching.com is not the be all end all, and Jeremy has no right to =
govern=20
  caching activities in any location.&nbsp; But, he does have the right =
to admin=20
  his own site and refuse any caches for the reason he sees fit.&nbsp; =
Granted,=20
  if we don't like the reason, hopefully there is room for dialogue to =
work out=20
  an alternative or come to some sort of middle ground.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Charter Memberships....</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In some ways I support it, and others =
I=20
  don't.&nbsp; Members Only caches have a snooty elitism about them, in =
my=20
  opinion.&nbsp; For that reason alone, I will not buy a charter=20
  membership.&nbsp; Fortunately for us, we have the Snaptek gurus who =
have put=20
  together a very rich pool of information to prepare for caching, which =
as I=20
  said before, is more efficient and user friendly than what I've seen =
at=20
  geocaching.com.&nbsp; My reasons for not getting one at this time are =
valid=20
  and legitimate, and I choose not to share those in this arena.&nbsp;=20
  So&nbsp;please do us all&nbsp;a favor and present your ideas a little =
less=20
  abrasively in the future.&nbsp; I'm sure mine will not be the only =
message in=20
  response to your accusatory toned argument.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally, who says the cache placers =
were not=20
  being adult in their response to the denial?&nbsp; I see both sides of =
the=20
  situation and support both for different reasons.&nbsp; However, there =
should=20
  be a dialogue between them and Jeremy in order to come to a resolution =
that=20
  satisfies both.&nbsp; In fact, after barking at them about how they =
acted, it=20
  just so happens that they borrowed your recommendation and posted the =
info=20
  somewhere independent of geocaching.com.&nbsp; Now I'm confused.&nbsp; =
You=20
  vented about something another geocacher did, then offered the =
solution they=20
  already implemented....&nbsp; Ugh</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[/soapbox]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Team =
A.I.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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