[Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation
WOLFB8
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:32:18 -0700
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do not know all the details of who was were ect. or if the geocacher was =
packing..or if the cop went to look for the shotter.......bottom line =
don't trespass
We will be known by the tracks we leave behind
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Ingoglia=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation
Yeah, but is shooting someone based on the fact that they're cruising =
around in the desert fair punishment (I'm not buyin' that Navajo Nation =
laws crap)? If I shot someone walking up to my door, I'd go to jail... =
even if I caught someone in my house climbing back out the window after =
ripping me off this still isn't justification.... now if someone is in =
my house and I thought my family's lives were in danger that's a =
completely different story.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: WOLFB8=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation
bottom line is they were trespassing private property is just that =
no matter who owns it!!!!
We will be known by the tracks we leave behind
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Ingoglia=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation
Let me step back a bit from all political correctness and voice my =
OPINION:
It's unfortunate about the story of the geocachers being shot at. =
I've personally met a lot of Navajo people that have a hatred for "white =
people". These people (not all, but a good number) seem to have a chip =
on their shoulder about "us" taking the land from them. I've =
experienced this first hand as well as my wife experienced it growing up =
in Page, AZ. The way I see it, it is the way humans are. There's not a =
group of people in history that haven't fought over land rights... =
including all the Indians. Yeah, we've all become more civilized and =
politics prevent it from happening as much these days, but they just =
need to get over it and deal with it... they don't need to be shooting =
at anyone. If it was up to me, the reservations would become state =
trust lands and the Indians would have to integrate into our society =
rather than segregating themselves from it(sorry, I still have a few =
years until I'm old enough to run for President) :-). It's ridiculous =
the free ride our government gives them. I just love driving (NOT!) =
through the reservation (on the highway) and seeing run-down single =
wides with a satellite dish and a brand new Chevy pickup out front. I'm =
beginning to believe getting "free rides" is the American way.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: mike and gale jett=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:18 PM
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Navajo Nation
Two of you wrote
Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant with the =
Navajo Nation
>Police Department. He told me that they will not allow any =
geocaches on
>their lands. If you are caught on their lands without a permit =
you can be
>arrested. This is just a reminder to please not place any =
caches on tribal
>lands.=20
The sergeant had a story to tell about a couple of cacher that =
wee shot at while looking for a cache. When they reported it to him they =
were sited for trespassing and told that if the people wanted to kill =
them they would have.
I feel the need to defend the Navajo Nation. Some of you may =
know that Mike is Navajo born and raised. His family still lives on the =
reservation. I lived there for 2 years while working for Indian Health =
Service. Lately the tribe has been having a lot of trouble with gangs, a =
lot more than you might think. Part of it has to do with the extreme =
poverty up there as well as unemployment, alcoholism etc. There has also =
been a huge push lately to return to ultra conservative traditional ways =
which some older Navajos would like to take as far as cutting out the =
outside world. That won't ever happen. There are still many rational =
people up there. The upshot is, as long as you treat the Navajo, Hopi, =
or any other tribe with great respect, including laws and their privacy, =
you will be treated the same. Please don't read all of the above and be =
discouraged from visiting the reservations of Arizona. I've done so for =
over 20 years, with and without Mike, and have al! ! ways been treated =
very well. On a side note, Mike and I have been talking about doing an =
event cache in Canyon de Chelly. His family has a homestead ranch in the =
Canyon del Muerto branch beyond where the tourists go. There is a trail =
that leads down to his family's cabin (not a hogan). His family always =
welcomes guests and permits are not needed for friends of the family to =
visit. The views are spectacular. Would people be interested?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>do not know all the details of who was =
were ect. or=20
if the geocacher was packing..or if the cop went to look for the=20
shotter.......bottom line don't trespass</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>We will be known by the tracks we leave behind</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmike@leaplab.com href=3D"mailto:mike@leaplab.com">Mike =
Ingoglia</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 06, =
2003 5:21=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] =
Navajo=20
Nation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yeah, but is shooting someone based =
on the fact=20
that they're cruising around in the desert fair punishment (I'm not =
buyin'=20
that Navajo Nation laws crap)? If I shot someone walking up to =
my door,=20
I'd go to jail... even if I caught someone in my house climbing back =
out the=20
window after ripping me off this still isn't justification.... now if =
someone=20
is in my house and I thought my family's lives were in danger that's a =
completely different story.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DWolfb8@cox.net href=3D"mailto:Wolfb8@cox.net">WOLFB8</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 06, =
2003 4:46=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] =
Navajo=20
Nation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> bottom line is they were=20
trespassing private property is just that no matter who owns=20
it!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We will be known by the tracks we leave behind</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmike@leaplab.com href=3D"mailto:mike@leaplab.com">Mike =
Ingoglia</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February =
06, 2003=20
2:50 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Az-Geocaching] Navajo=20
Nation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let me step back a bit from all =
political=20
correctness and voice my OPINION:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's unfortunate about the story =
of the=20
geocachers being shot at. I've personally met a lot of =
Navajo people=20
that have a hatred for "white people". These =
people (not all,=20
but a good number) seem to have a chip on their shoulder about =
"us" taking=20
the land from them. I've experienced this first hand as well =
as my=20
wife experienced it growing up in Page, AZ. The way I see =
it, it is=20
the way humans are. There's not a group of people in history =
that=20
haven't fought over land rights... including all the =
Indians. Yeah,=20
we've all become more civilized and politics prevent it from =
happening as=20
much these days, but they just need to get over it and deal with =
it...=20
they don't need to be shooting at anyone. If it was up to =
me, the=20
reservations would become state trust lands and the Indians would =
have to=20
integrate into our society rather than segregating themselves from =
it(sorry, I still have a few years until I'm old enough to run for =
President) :-). It's ridiculous the free ride our =
government=20
gives them. I just love driving (NOT!) through the =
reservation (on=20
the highway) and seeing run-down single wides with a satellite =
dish and a=20
brand new Chevy pickup out front. I'm beginning to believe =
getting=20
"free rides" is the American way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsonoralovesmommy@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:sonoralovesmommy@hotmail.com">mike and gale =
jett</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February =
06, 2003=20
12:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Az-Geocaching] =
Navajo=20
Nation</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Two of you wrote</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant with the =
Navajo=20
Nation<BR>>Police Department. He told me that they will not =
allow any=20
geocaches on<BR>>their lands. If you are caught on their =
lands=20
without a permit you can be<BR>>arrested. This is just a =
reminder to=20
please not place any caches on tribal<BR>>lands. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>The sergeant =
had a story to=20
tell about a couple of cacher that wee shot at while looking for =
a=20
cache. When they reported it to him they were sited for =
trespassing and=20
told that if the people wanted to kill them they would=20
have.</FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000>I feel the need to defend the Navajo =
Nation. Some=20
of you may know that Mike is Navajo born and raised. His family =
still=20
lives on the reservation. I lived there for 2 years while =
working for=20
Indian Health Service. Lately the tribe has been having a lot of =
trouble=20
with gangs, a lot more than you might think. Part of it has to =
do with=20
the extreme poverty up there as well as unemployment, alcoholism =
etc.=20
There has also been a huge push lately to return to ultra =
conservative=20
traditional ways which some older Navajos would like to take as =
far as=20
cutting out the outside world. That won't ever happen. There are =
still=20
many rational people up there. The upshot is, as long as you =
treat the=20
Navajo, Hopi, or any other tribe with great respect, including =
laws and=20
their privacy, you will be treated the same. Please don't read =
all of=20
the above and be discouraged from visiting the reservations of =
Arizona.=20
I've done so for over 20 years, with and without Mike, and have =
al! !=20
ways been treated very well. On a side note, Mike and I have =
been=20
talking about doing an event cache in Canyon de Chelly. His =
family has a=20
homestead ranch in the Canyon del Muerto branch beyond where the =
tourists go. There is a trail that leads down to his family's =
cabin (not=20
a hogan). His family always welcomes guests and permits are not =
needed=20
for friends of the family to visit. The views are spectacular. =
Would=20
people be interested?</P>
<DIV><BR clear=3Dall></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
STOP MORE SPAM with <A =
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMPENUS/2728">the new MSN=20
8</A> and get 2 months FREE*=20
____________________________________________________________=20
Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit =
your=20
setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:=20
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching=20
Arizona's Geocaching Resource=20
=
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