[Az-Geocaching] Our Day in Tonto revisited

Regan Smith listserv@azgeocaching.com
Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:08:35 -0700


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While talking to other stewarts there I found out that all Shelly has to =
do all day is play site stewart. Since her present cause is geocaching =
STILL we need to start getting permittion for caches. I was also =
informed that (forget what national forest) that the national forest =
around Prescott is all for geocaching just like tonto.

BOTTOM LINE DON'T PLACE A CACHE WITH OUT PERMISSION FIRST

Would this include those caches that are on like modern Public and =
Private land and property as well??
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: WOLFB8=20
  To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Our Day in Tonto revisited


  >Libby and I went as land stewards to the conservation law enforcement
  >seminar held in Prescott Today. Approximately 100-150 officers from =
Game &
  >Fish, and various park rangers from the state attended.While there =
the
  >instructors began discussing Geocaching and how it has had a negative =
impact
  >on some archeological sites. My belief is that they formed these =
opinions
  >based upon the poorly written article in the Arizona Repulsive.=20
  Just going to piggyback off of ken letter here
  I have to disagree with ken on were there opinion have come from. I =
believe it more from shelly talking to the  land officers. From the =
people I talked to it seemed that the officer from the west valley had =
more negative thing to say than the ones from the east valley.

  >During this seminar I was able to speak to the various instructors =
and
  >educate them about our hobby. As a result they gave me some time to =
speak to
  >the group and give an impromptu presentation about Geocaching.  I =
encouraged
  >the members to check the website and address any of their concerns =
through
  >the internet. After making my presentation I had several members =
approach me
  >and said that they had changed their minds and do not consider it as =
serious
  >a threat as they had been led to believe. I think I left them with a
  >positive impression.

  Yeppers he did do that

  >The archeological community does have legitimate concerns about =
placing
  >caches in archeological sites.The consensus of the archeologists is =
that
  >placing caches near these sites is extremely damaging. I have learned =
that
  >moving objects, I.e.rocks & stuff while hunting for a cache, can =
destroy the
  >historical significance of the site. There are severe criminal and =
civil
  >penalties that can be assessed if damage is done to these sites. =
Since there
  >are many unpublished archeological sites throughout the state I =
encouraged
  >the members of the Conservation Law Enforcement community to log on =
the
  >Geocaching web site to check there respective areas for caches that =
may be
  >placed, or near unknown archeological sites. If you happen to get an =
e-mail
  >from one of them requesting you remove a cache, please do so. I =
believe the
  >nmajority of them left with a more positive outlook about our hobby.

  Here again I do not totally agree with Ken.. We all know of caches out =
there at are close to archeological site. I believe that the geocaching =
community needs to police its own. All those they will not be able to =
charge geocacher with a felony the hider and the finders of the cache on =
a archeological can be taken to civil court. Were finds can range into =
the $100K. They would also be able to take all the toys(jeeps ,4x4, GPS) =
used to find the cache. I suggest if you think a cache is on a site do =
not log it, instead remove it, contact the cache owner have them remove =
it. We as cacher can not expect land manager or law enforcement to go =
though all the trouble of logging into geocaching.com and sending us =
little notes.

  As a side note here the cache on shaw butt is in the archeological =
site. I was there on Sunday with the manager of the salt river site =
stewarts. As a matter of fact I have been assigned that site and will =
remove it if it is still there the next time I check on that site as I =
been instructed to. (Just toss it in the trash). I know that there are 2 =
caches in the white tanks that are also so on sites


  >Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant with the Navajo =
Nation
  >Police Department. He told me that they will not allow any geocaches =
on
  >their lands. If you are caught on their lands without a permit you =
can be
  >arrested. This is just a reminder to please not place any caches on =
tribal
  >lands.

  The sergeant had a story to tell about a couple of cacher that wee =
shot at while looking for a cache. When they reported it to him they =
were sited for trespassing and told that if the people wanted to kill =
them they would have.

  >It still amazes me how much damage one poorly written and researched
  >newspaper article can cause.

  While talking to other stewarts there I found out that all Shelly has =
to do all day is play site stewart. Since her present cause is =
geocaching STILL we need to start getting permittion for caches. I was =
also informed that (forget what national forest) that the national =
forest around Prescott is all for geocaching just like tonto.

  BOTTOM LINE DON'T PLACE A CACHE WITH OUT PERMISSION FIRST.


  We will be known by the tracks we leave behind
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>While talking to other =
stewarts there=20
I found out that all Shelly has to do all day is play site stewart. =
Since her=20
present cause is geocaching STILL we need to start getting permittion =
for=20
caches. I was also informed that (forget what national forest) that the =
national=20
forest around Prescott is all for geocaching just like =
tonto.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>BOTTOM LINE DON'T PLACE =
A CACHE WITH=20
OUT PERMISSION FIRST</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would this include those caches that =
are&nbsp;on=20
like modern Public and Private land and property as =
well??</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DWolfb8@cox.net href=3D"mailto:Wolfb8@cox.net">WOLFB8</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 06, =
2003 6:12=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Az-Geocaching] =
Our Day in=20
  Tonto revisited</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>&gt;Libby and=20
  I went as land stewards to the conservation law =
enforcement<BR>&gt;seminar=20
  held in Prescott Today. Approximately 100-150 officers from Game=20
  &amp;<BR>&gt;Fish, and various park rangers from the state =
attended.While=20
  there the<BR>&gt;instructors began discussing Geocaching and how it =
has had a=20
  negative impact<BR>&gt;on some archeological sites. My belief is that =
they=20
  formed these opinions<BR>&gt;based upon the poorly written article in =
the=20
  Arizona Repulsive. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Just going to piggyback off of ken letter=20
  here</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><FONT=20
  color=3D#ff0000>I have to disagree with ken on were there opinion have =
come=20
  from. I believe it more from shelly talking to the&nbsp; land =
officers. From=20
  the people I talked to it seemed that the officer from the west valley =
had=20
  more negative thing to say than the ones from the east=20
  valley.</FONT><BR><BR>&gt;During this seminar I was able to speak to =
the=20
  various instructors and<BR>&gt;educate them about our hobby. As a =
result they=20
  gave me some time to speak to<BR>&gt;the group and give an impromptu=20
  presentation about Geocaching.&nbsp; I encouraged<BR>&gt;the members =
to check=20
  the website and address any of their concerns through<BR>&gt;the =
internet.=20
  After making my presentation I had several members approach =
me<BR>&gt;and said=20
  that they had changed their minds and do not consider it as =
serious<BR>&gt;a=20
  threat as they had been led to believe. I think I left them with=20
  a<BR>&gt;positive impression.<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#ff0000=20
  size=3D3>Yeppers he did do that</FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>
  <DIV><BR>&gt;The archeological community does have legitimate concerns =
about=20
  placing<BR>&gt;caches in archeological sites.The consensus of the=20
  archeologists is that<BR>&gt;placing caches near these sites is =
extremely=20
  damaging. I have learned that<BR>&gt;moving objects, I.e.rocks &amp; =
stuff=20
  while hunting for a cache, can destroy the<BR>&gt;historical =
significance of=20
  the site. There are severe criminal and civil<BR>&gt;penalties that =
can be=20
  assessed if damage is done to these sites. Since there<BR>&gt;are many =

  unpublished archeological sites throughout the state I =
encouraged<BR>&gt;the=20
  members of the Conservation Law Enforcement community to log on=20
  the<BR>&gt;Geocaching web site to check there respective areas for =
caches that=20
  may be<BR>&gt;placed, or near unknown archeological sites. If you =
happen to=20
  get an e-mail<BR>&gt;from one of them requesting you remove a cache, =
please do=20
  so. I believe the</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt;nmajority of them left with a more positive outlook about our =

  hobby.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>Here again I do not =
totally agree=20
  with Ken.. We all know of caches out there at are close to =
archeological site.=20
  I believe that the geocaching community needs to police its own. All =
those=20
  they will not be able to charge geocacher with a felony the hider and =
the=20
  finders of the cache on a archeological can be taken to civil court. =
Were=20
  finds can range into the $100K. They would also be able to take all =
the=20
  toys(jeeps ,4x4, GPS)&nbsp;used to find the cache. I suggest if you =
think a=20
  cache is on a site do not log it, instead remove it, contact the cache =
owner=20
  have them remove it. We as cacher can not expect land manager or law=20
  enforcement to go though all the trouble of logging into =
geocaching.com and=20
  sending us little notes.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>As a side note here =
the cache on=20
  shaw butt is in the archeological site. I was there on Sunday with the =
manager=20
  of the salt river site stewarts. As a matter of fact I have been =
assigned that=20
  site and will remove it if it is still there the next time I check on =
that=20
  site as I been instructed to. (Just toss it in the trash). I know that =
there=20
  are 2 caches in the white tanks that are also so on sites</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><BR><BR>&gt;Also, I had the opportunity to speak to a Sergeant =
with the=20
  Navajo Nation<BR>&gt;Police Department. He told me that they will not =
allow=20
  any geocaches on<BR>&gt;their lands. If you are caught on their lands =
without=20
  a permit you can be<BR>&gt;arrested. This is just a reminder to please =
not=20
  place any caches on tribal<BR>&gt;lands.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>The sergeant had a =
story to tell=20
  about a couple of cacher that wee shot at while looking for a cache. =
When they=20
  reported it to him they were sited for trespassing and told that if =
the people=20
  wanted to kill them they would have.</FONT><BR><BR>&gt;It still amazes =
me how=20
  much damage one poorly written and researched<BR>&gt;newspaper article =
can=20
  cause.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>While talking to =
other stewarts=20
  there I found out that all Shelly has to do all day is play site =
stewart.=20
  Since her present cause is geocaching STILL we need to start getting=20
  permittion for caches. I was also informed that (forget what national =
forest)=20
  that the national forest around Prescott is all for geocaching just =
like=20
  tonto.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2>BOTTOM LINE DON'T =
PLACE A CACHE=20
  WITH OUT PERMISSION FIRST.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>We will be known by the tracks we leave=20
  behind</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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