[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
Andrew Ayre
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:45:37 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3001F.DE582290
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MessagePetition time? ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Tomlinson
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:34 AM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
Andy
Agreed. We would all be much better off having the functionality at
geocaching.com. I was just pre-supposing ideas in the event that doesn't
happen. We should find some way to organize and present a unified message
to see if there really is power in numbers. (assuming a large enough group
of people are even interested enough).
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Ayre
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:48 AM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
Bill,
Questions, checkboxes, etc. thats what I meant by guided format, so
there is consistancy.
I would volunteer to implement such a "text generation" system, however
I think that geocaching.com is the best place to do it if it is to be
included in enough caches (Arizona or otherwise) to make it worthwhile. If a
high enough percentage of Arizona cache hiders (past and present) read this
list and all put some effort in, then maybe it could work for Arizona
without geocaching.com.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Tomlinson
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:33 AM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
You've both made some very good points and sparked a couple of
thoughts. Although I don't fall into the "handicapped" category your
discussing, I'd like to throw in some ideas. I tend to take a broader view
of the world. First, I like that you mentioned the word "limitations". I
was going to propose that. When we say "handicapped", most people think of
a small range of physical limitations. As you pointed out, there is really
a huge range. Beyond that, though, I would even propose we include
non-physical limitations. I know people that are paralyzingly afraid of
heights. We've all seen rest areas and scenic lookouts that are paved and
completely flat. A person in a wheel chair might easily be able to get a
cache there if placed well, but a person afraid of heights might not go
anywhere near the edge. There are lots of other limitations, but you get
the idea.
My second thought is on the use of text. I think that any way it is
done would require some dependence on the hider. We probably wouldn't get
the consistency needed to do any worthwhile searching. Besides, if it's too
much work, people just won't do it. I'm wondering if we could do something
like the travel sites do for hotels. Just lots of check boxes. Does it
have a pool? A restaurant? Wheelchair accessible? I'm sure we could come
up with a decent set of questions that would not be too imposing on the
cache owner, but would still be useful to the finder. Then, it would be a
simple matter to perform searches based on those well defined attributes.
OK, I just had a third thought. Perhaps if getting anything done at
geocaching.com is too difficult, maybe we could have an independent Arizona
engine with these attributes. It would be more effort for the owners and
would make searching slightly more difficult, but I bet many of us would
gladly use it. That might even give geocaching.com the kick in the rear
needed to make some changes. Especially if they know we members are
questioning the value we receive for what we're paying.
So, just a bunch of jumbled thoughts. I think if we had someone
spearheading the effort, more would join in.
CacheLess
Bill Tomlinson
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Ayre
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:31 AM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
Well its quite simple really. The current system (1 star) is IMO
inadequate because is relies on the hider knowing what "handicap accessible"
really means, and lets face it - most people don't have a clue. If you go to
the clayjar cache rating sysem thingmyjig, it describes 1 star as being
wheelchair accessible. This is a perfect example IMO of someone writing an
attempt at a handicap description and not having a clue. People in
wheelchairs can often go further and longer than someone on crutches. IMO
its a crude attempt at finding the "lowest common denominator".
So rather than that, I think hiders should use some kind of guided
questions or format to create an accurate textual (not stars!) description
of surface type, inclines, height of cache off ground, whether you have to
reach into a bush to find it, flat or inclined parking, etc. Armed with this
information handicapped people can make up their own minds whether they can
do it with their particular set of disabilities, and hiders don't have to
try and take into account what little they often know about a massive range
of different limitations that fall under the broad description of
"handicapped".
This information is obviously a spoiler for everyone else and could
give away the hiding location in most instances. So this description needs
to be encrypted like the hints or require clicking on a seperate link to
view it, so non-handicapped people can ignore it.
Finally, it should be possible to search based on this description
or view just this description of all the nearest caches on a summary page,
so handicapped people can quickly scan through the list, read and find the
ones they can do - similar to what most of us probably do right now with the
stars to some degree.
Pros: allows handicapped people to quickly identify which caches
they can do and be included more in the fun of geocaching
Cons: takes away some of the fun of finding the cache because the
description will likely give away the location.
This is the best I can come up with. I'll be adding something like
this to the caches I've hidden when I get time.
Background: my wife is handicapped and often requires the use of
crutches and a wheelchair. I have found it very tough to work out which
caches we can do together and so far its been mostly urban ones. Its very
dissapointing to get out in the backcountry to find a cache that should be
ok for her on paper and on topo maps (I use the 3D function, profile
function and distance measuring in Terrain Naviagator to try to assess the
terrain) and find that she cannot do it.
If anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it. Suggesting
similar things to the above idea on the forums at geocaching.com has been a
waste of time based on the responses it gets. IMO geocaching.com falls
completely short of attempting to include handicapped people and I don't
think it would require much effort to implement something (anything!)
better.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of gale and
mike
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 4:29 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no fighting
[Snipped]
For Andy/Groover/TeamSpike:
As a person with physical limitations (for those of you who have
seen me, I hide them quite well), I appreciate the difficulties in assessing
handicap accessibility on cache pages. If you've posted ideas about this in
the past with geocaching.com, how about posting them here so that all future
cache hiders will have an idea of what would help the many handicapped
geocachers in this state. One thing I like is a good description in the
cache page (ie road requires high clearance vehicle, rock scrambling
required, fairly level terrain). I can more readily determine if I can
physically attempt the cache that way than just by sticking the handicap
symbol on the easiest terrain caches. Perhaps we can compile a list of
handicapped accessible caches and have azgeocaching.com note on their
website who to contact for an updated list. I wouldn't mind being the
contact (on another e-mail address).
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3001F.DE582290
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D774244518-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Petition time? ;)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR> </FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Bill=20
Tomlinson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 11, 2003 11:34 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Az-Geocaching] Just=20
wondering, please no fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D196283118-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D196283118-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D196283118-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Agreed. We would all be much better off having the =
functionality=20
at geocaching.com. I was just pre-supposing ideas in the event =
that=20
doesn't happen. We should find some way to organize and present =
a=20
unified message to see if there really is power in numbers. (assuming =
a large=20
enough group of people are even interested =
enough).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D196283118-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D196283118-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Bill</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <B>On Behalf =
Of=20
</B>Andrew Ayre<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 11, 2003 10:48=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no =
fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817104517-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Bill,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817104517-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817104517-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Questions, checkboxes, etc. thats what I meant by guided =
format, so=20
there is consistancy.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817104517-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817104517-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
would volunteer to implement such a "text generation" system, =
however I=20
think that geocaching.com is the best place to do it if it =
is to be=20
included in enough caches (Arizona or otherwise) to make it =
worthwhile.=20
If a high enough percentage of Arizona cache hiders (past and=20
present) read this list and all put some effort in, then maybe =
it could=20
work for Arizona without geocaching.com.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Andy<BR><BR> </FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<B>On Behalf =
Of=20
</B>Bill Tomlinson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 11, 2003 9:33=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no =
fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>You've both made some very good points and sparked a =
couple of=20
thoughts. Although I don't fall into the "handicapped" =
category your=20
discussing, I'd like to throw in some ideas. I tend to take =
a=20
broader view of the world. First, I like that you mentioned =
the word=20
"limitations". I was going to propose that. When we =
say=20
"handicapped", most people think of a small range of physical=20
limitations. As you pointed out, there is really a huge=20
range.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> Beyond that, though, I would even =
propose we=20
include non-physical limitations. I know people that are=20
paralyzingly afraid of heights. We've all seen rest areas =
and scenic=20
lookouts that are paved and completely flat. A person in a =
wheel=20
chair might easily be able to get a cache there if placed well, =
but a=20
person afraid of heights might not go anywhere near the =
edge. There=20
are lots of other limitations, but you get the =
idea.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>My second thought is on the use of text. I think =
that any way=20
it is done would require some dependence on the hider. We =
probably=20
wouldn't get the consistency needed to do any worthwhile =
searching. =20
Besides, if it's too much work, people just won't do it. I'm =
wondering if we could do something like the travel sites do for=20
hotels. Just lots of check boxes. Does it have a =
pool? A=20
restaurant? Wheelchair accessible? I'm sure we could =
come up=20
with a decent set of questions that would not be too imposing on =
the cache=20
owner, but would still be useful to the finder. Then, it =
would be a=20
simple matter to perform searches based on those well defined =
attributes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>OK, I just had a third thought. Perhaps if getting =
anything=20
done at geocaching.com is too difficult, maybe we could have an=20
independent Arizona engine with these attributes. It =
would be=20
more effort for the owners and would make searching slightly more=20
difficult, but I bet many of us would gladly use it. That =
might even=20
give geocaching.com the kick in the rear needed to make some=20
changes. Especially if they know we members are questioning =
the=20
value we receive for what we're paying.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>So, just a bunch of jumbled thoughts. I think if we =
had=20
someone spearheading the effort, more would join =
in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>CacheLess</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D894461116-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Bill Tomlinson</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>Andrew Ayre<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 11, 2003 8:31=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no =
fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>Well its quite simple really. The =
current=20
system (1 star) is IMO inadequate because is relies on the hider =
knowing=20
what "handicap accessible" really means, and lets face it - most =
people=20
don't have a clue. If you go to the clayjar cache rating sysem=20
thingmyjig, it describes 1 star as being wheelchair accessible. =
This is=20
a perfect example IMO of someone writing an attempt at a =
handicap=20
description and not having a clue. People in wheelchairs can =
often go=20
further and longer than someone on crutches. IMO its a crude =
attempt at=20
finding the "lowest common denominator".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>So rather than that, I think hiders =
should use=20
some kind of guided questions or format to create an accurate =
textual=20
(not stars!) description of surface type, inclines, height of =
cache off=20
ground, whether you have to reach into a bush to find it, flat =
or=20
inclined parking, etc. Armed with this information handicapped =
people=20
can make up their own minds whether they can do it with their =
particular=20
set of disabilities, and hiders don't have to try and take into =
account=20
what little they often know about a massive range of different=20
limitations that fall under the broad description of=20
"handicapped".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>This information is obviously a =
spoiler for=20
everyone else and could give away the hiding location in most =
instances.=20
So this description needs to be encrypted like the hints or =
require=20
clicking on a seperate link to view it, so non-handicapped =
people can=20
ignore it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>Finally, it should be possible to =
search based=20
on this description or view just this description of all the =
nearest=20
caches on a summary page, so handicapped people can quickly scan =
through=20
the list, read and find the ones they can do - similar to what =
most of=20
us probably do right now with the stars to some=20
degree.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>Pros: allows handicapped people to =
quickly=20
identify which caches they can do and be included more in the =
fun of=20
geocaching</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>Cons: takes away some of the fun of =
finding the=20
cache because the description will likely give away the=20
location.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003>This is the best I can come up with. =
I'll be=20
adding something like this to the caches I've hidden when I get=20
time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Background: my wife is handicapped and often requires =
the use of=20
crutches and a wheelchair. I have found it very tough to work =
out which=20
caches we can do together and so far its been mostly urban ones. =
Its=20
very dissapointing to get out in the backcountry to find a cache =
that=20
should be ok for her on paper and on topo maps (I use the 3D =
function,=20
profile function and distance measuring in Terrain Naviagator to =
try to=20
assess the terrain) and find that she cannot do =
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>If anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it. =
Suggesting=20
similar things to the above idea on the forums at geocaching.com =
has=20
been a waste of time based on the responses it gets. IMO =
geocaching.com=20
falls completely short of attempting to include =
handicapped people=20
and I don't think it would require much effort to implement =
something=20
(anything!) better.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Andy<BR><BR> </FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]<B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>gale and mike<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 10, 2003 =
4:29=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
[Az-Geocaching] Just wondering, please no=20
fighting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><SPAN=20
class=3D731321415-11042003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>[Snipped]</FONT></SPAN></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in =
0pt"><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">For=20
Andy/Groover/TeamSpike:</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">As a person =
with=20
physical limitations (for those of you who have seen me, I =
hide them=20
quite well), I appreciate the difficulties in assessing =
handicap=20
accessibility on cache pages. If you’ve posted ideas =
about this in the=20
past with geocaching.com, how about posting them here so that =
all=20
future cache hiders will have an idea of what would help the =
many=20
handicapped geocachers in this state. One thing I like is a =
good=20
description in the cache page (ie road requires high clearance =
vehicle, rock scrambling required, fairly level terrain). I =
can more=20
readily determine if I can physically attempt the cache that =
way than=20
just by sticking the handicap symbol on the easiest terrain =
caches.=20
Perhaps we can compile a list of handicapped accessible caches =
and=20
have azgeocaching.com note on their website who to contact for =
an=20
updated list. I wouldn’t mind being the contact (on =
another e-mail=20
=
address).</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3001F.DE582290--