[Az-Geocaching] Madonna(s) of the Trail - the cache owner replies
Team Tierra Buena
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:37:03 -0700
Brett,
Your posting did get through, as you can see. Welcome to our community.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post here, especially since
it may well feel to you like a hostile environment. That is not the
case. Like you, those of us who participate here are passionate about
Geocaching. One of the things that makes it unique is that there are few
if any standards. At times that is an enormous strength, at times it
bites us on the ankle. There were a number of us here, myself included,
who questioned the validity of your cache based upon what we saw and
didn't see in the cache description.
Could we have handled ourselves more diplomatically? Perhaps, but this
is our locker room. Instead of venting here, and then getting in touch
with you, we could have just continued to vent here. Or vented at you
first. I don't see either of those options as having the potential to
initiate resolution to a degree that compares with what we did do.
I can only speak for myself, but if anything that I wrote caused you to
take offense, I apologize. I am also very happy that you have taken the
steps to get in touch with us and are taking steps to address the
possibility of your cache series being mis-perceived as to its intent.
And if you decide to stick around here, I think you'll find that we're
not just a bunch of heat-addled cache cops, but a group you'll enjoy
getting to know.
Steve
Team Tierra Buena
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
> [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On
> Behalf Of Brett Duvall
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 2:04 AM
> To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
> Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Madonna(s) of the Trail - the cache
> owner replies
>
>
> First, let me apologize if I am posting incorrectly to your
> discussion group. I was able to subscribe OK, but have seen
> nothing to let me post a reply to the existing thread. I
> will also apologize that this email is getting lengthy. I
> will keep it as short as possible.
>
> Yes, I am the dirty dog many of you seem to have decided to
> hate in one day. I will try to explain, then you can go ahead
> and shoot me. My goal was to point out a series of monuments
> that many might otherwise miss. I will try to group your
> criticisms and answer them the best I can.
>
> criticism #1) The only thing you get out of the virtual cache
> is a certificate.
> >> No, the certificate may be nice to some, but it means very
> little.
> >> It is
> only there to give a geocacher a warm fuzzy. What I intended
> for the geocacher to get from these monuments was some
> knowledge that a group of people in our history used their
> optimism, faith, stamina and determination to take a 1-way
> trip into the unknown and make that place their new home.
> Their sacrifice was so great that others decided to spend
> their money and time to memorialize it. If all a cacher sees
> in a virtual cache is +1 to their cache-found count, then I
> feel truly sorry for them - they have missed the boat.
>
> criticism #2) Anyone can easily cheat to get credit
> >> Yes, currently they can be easily cheated - I am sorry.
> Initially,
> >> there
> was only one cache and the picture had the N.S.D.A.R. wiped
> off. I put the "un-modified" picture there because I was
> offending members of the DAR, who paid for all these statues
> in the 1920's.
> >> I WILL make these caches acceptable in their individual
> communities,
> including yours. I have already made a modification that
> requests cachers to email me with information to verify their
> find in Arizona. I have extended this to California, and
> when my information is complete, will do this to the rest of
> the caches as well. If you have any other suggestions, I
> will give them every consideration.
> >>I don't wish to upset any of you, and will do what I can to make the
> caches fit into your community. I personally do not feel
> that a cache-found count tells us anything about a geocacher,
> however. Someone in an urban area can spend a couple hours
> finding 10 caches in the park nextdoor, while someone in a
> rural area might have to drive a couple hours just to look for
> one. I am sure that there are thousands of caches I could
> cheat if I want
> to, but I would only be cheating myself. I view geocaching
> as an outdoor activity and not a competitive sport. I do
> respect your wishes, however. I will fix all the caches so
> that the cacher can post a picture or email me. I will police
> all the sites, to the best of my ability and remove logs as
> necessity demands. I will also change the background picture
> to remove the Madonna from Lexington. Maybe I will change it
> to something I wish for all of you to see real soon.
>
> criticism #3) I haven't visited the sites myself and have
> given credit to others for finding the statues for me...
> without thier GPSr's.
> >> Now, this one pisses me off, because you are attacking someone in
> >> your
> own community for helping me create a cache site for YOU. I
> took a landmark that meant something to me (in Missouri) and
> made a cache site out of it. When I found out that there were
> several of them, I was thrilled and thought everyone should
> have the chance to understand them (those who want to know,
> that is). I wanted to set up these caches, which span 12
> states and several thousand miles, for everyone's benefit -
> not just mine. I don't want and won't get any Wizzo button
> for creating these sites. I just want to feel that I did
> something good. I don't have the time or money to travel the
> country, so I decided to contact other cachers. I asked each
> of them to take the information I got online and locate the
> statues for me. My response has been fantastic, and I have
> met several very nice people. I wanted to give them credit
> for finding the cache site, so I wrote it into the
> description. You can gripe at me for not driving 10,000+
> miles to find all the coordinates myself and I will simply
> smile and apologize, but don't attack those who happily gave
> their time to help me. And don't say they didn't find the
> cache, because each of them has found the cache site, and
> used their GPSr. (In New Mexico's case, the search required
> them to find a park that no longer exists, and a statue that
> was moved from the original location with very little information).
>
> Maybe I got a little verbose here, but let me summarize by
> reiterating: I will make this cache acceptable to your
> community. I will make the effort to address your concerns,
> just as I will do with the other communities. Your criticisms
> are very helpful, even when they are barbed. I appreciate,
> especially, those who contacted me so I could deal with your
> concerns. I do value my own integrity and care how my
> geocaching efforts are perceived.
>
> I wish you all the best,
> Brett Duvall
> (brettd on geocaching.com)
> (talons@kc.rr.com)
>
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