ShadowAce stated Nothing!

 ShadowAce mearly provided a link to the forum and provided the guideline information to those who missed it.

 Please feel free to address all questions to the reviews or groundspeak. Any decisions made on the AZGeoCaching listserv are simply speculations and interpretations.

 ShadowAce has not even stated his opinion on this change however he has temp disabled a cache he owns until clarification is recieved from GROUNDSPEAK because he reads this as .. Unless you get special permission from the wording of the guidelines change you can not enforce any Alternate Logging Requirement until it is blessed by Groundspeak.

 

On 4/5/09, AZTech <aztech.gc@gmail.com> wrote:
Acan you elaborate? Earlier in this discussion, ShadowAce stated the following:

So Any cache listed as a ? with Alternate Logging Requirements needs be altered or archived because "You must find and prove you have found 40 caches on a Friday" is now changed to "come find my cache, sign the log and claim a find"

Are you saying this is false and that since "finding 40 caches on a Friday" is geocaching-related that a challenge cache with this requirement is allowed?

I'm hoping that's the case but am curious about others' interpretation, especially given logs I've seen on a couple challenge caches indicating (quite happily by the person writing the note) that the cache is no longer allowed...

From: AZcachemeister <azcachemeister@getnet.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 5:04 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Helping to spread the word ...


Apparently there were ALRs being created (in other areas) that did not relate in any way to Geocaching.
So, by the new section, it seems that Geocaching related challenges are acceptable.

ACM


AZTech wrote:
Well, I didn't recall seeing it before, but figured it had been added in previously because it doesn't seem to make much sense to have it given that ALRs are not binding. 

So, again, my original, unanswered question, why have any ALRs at all?

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 3:44 PM, ShadowAce <shadowace.az@gmail.com> wrote:
They did not remove that section because that section did not exist until the changes this week.

That section "Challenge caches incorporate special logging requirements and are listed as Mystery/Puzzle caches. Typically they require the seeker to have previously met a reasonable geocaching-related qualification (Waymarking and Wherigo qualify too, of course) such as first finding a cache in every county in your state. If you are thinking of creating such a cache, please include a note to the reviewer demonstrating either that you have met the challenge yourself, or that a substantial number of other geocachers would be able to do so." was just created, so removing it would be a fairly odd choice.

On 4/5/09, AZTech <aztech.gc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.  Everyone plays the game according to their own preferences, whether it be going after only tough hikes, difficult puzzles or simply logging as many finds as possible, so this just limits our options.  I'm especially surprised that they opted not to grandfather existing caches and instead made the change retroactive.

While TPTB were updating the guidelines, I was surprised to see that they didn't remove the following section from the guidelines for Mystery or Puzzle Caches:

Challenge caches incorporate special logging requirements and are listed as Mystery/Puzzle caches. Typically they require the seeker to have previously met a reasonable geocaching-related qualification (Waymarking and Wherigo qualify too, of course) such as first finding a cache in every county in your state. If you are thinking of creating such a cache, please include a note to the reviewer demonstrating either that you have met the challenge yourself, or that a substantial number of other geocachers would be able to do so.

In light of the new guideline, that "Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish optional tasks", what's the purpose of putting out a challenge cache if cachers aren't required to complete the challenge to log the find?  Why have any ALRs at all?



On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:33 AM, MEL HOCKWITT <melhockwitt@msn.com> wrote:
Looks like taking the fun out of caching is on the way.  Too many rules have killed many an organization and put bad tastes in the mouths of the members.
 
My thoughts.
Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: ShadowAce
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Helping to spread the word ...

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388

 Alternate Logging Requirements No longer allowed.

So Any cache listed as a ? with Alternate Logging Requirements needs be altered or archived because "You must find and prove you have found 40 caches on a Friday" is now changed to "come find my cache, sign the log and claim a find"

 Please make sure you note the changes to the guidelines dates April 2009:

  1. A section called Logging of All Physical Caches has been added to the guidelines.
QUOTE
Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

If it is appropriate for your cache location or theme, you may ask the cache seeker to accomplish an optional and simple task, either close to the cache site (normally within 0.1 miles or 161 meters) or when writing their online log. For example, wear the goofy hat inside the cache container and upload a photograph. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish optional tasks. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

This guideline change applies immediately to all logs written from April 4, 2009 and going forward. Older caches with "additional logging requirements" (ALRs) are not grandfathered under the older guideline. If you own an existing cache with mandatory additional logging requirements, we request that you:
  • Cease deleting logs based on additional logging requirements.
  • Review your own cache listing to see if the ALR can be made into an optional and simple task, or whether it must be removed altogether.
  • Adjust your geocache listing by editing the text then contact a reviewer to change the cache type, if appropriate.

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