Here's my take on this. As I've understood it, Jake originally created this artwork more as a personal gift to me, intended as thanks for getting the Adopt-A-Highway program started and for the CITO Always cache itself. But he took my positive response and turned toward making a coin design out of it instead once the realization hit that it would make a great coin design. At at that point, he bounced ideas off me and I gave him input, which he then took into consideration when working up the design. Not once did I interject and make this to be all about me, and never intended to either. It really wouldn't have made any difference to me if CITO Always had been adopted by someone else and still used as a reference, but since others agreed to keep an eye on it for me; I maintained ownership of that cache. In fact, the only way this coin design references me is if one goes and looks up the information for the cache that's 25' from the sign and notices who the owner of the cache is. Again, as stated on the page and my initial post, there have been no steps taken beyond the artwork being created. It was posted merely to gauge interest in the coin. If the design proceeds to a coin being produced, I suppose the reference could be changed to address a region rather than a state. It's not THE Arizona CITO coin, but A Arizona CITO coin. I didn't catch where you got that reference at first, but see it posted on the actual page for the coin concept. I think that was more of an error in word choice than anything, because I always saw it as a great design and one of the more appropriate geocoins to go into production, given the mass influx of coins that have absolutely nothing to do with caching. If there is desire for some sort of official Arizona CITO coin, then great. I still think this one should be made, but under a different banner of sorts. At the same time, aside from the coordinates, nobody else outside of Phoenix would really know (or care) that the sign used as the basis for the artwork was in the metro Phoenix area, except for those cachers in-state aware of its existence. For all the rest, for all they know the sign could be in Lake Havasu, or Willcox. It became a design that identified with Arizona Geocachers in general, but references a specific cache that is still active. When I filled out paperwork to get that section adopted, I made the name a general reference to give props to ALL Arizona Geocachers, but just as easily could have said "Phoenix Geocachers" or "Central Arizona Geocachers," but I wanted to give recognition to everyone in general. Fortunately, the area has required less maintenance over time because cachers who attend those clean-ups do a wonderful job and the trash didn't have a chance to pile up anymore. That doesn't go to say that other CITO events aren't just as good, because I know for a fact they are. The original intent of the program I applied for has been marred by ill feelings of unknown origin. Last I checked Dirk, you and I had a pretty good relationship so I'm surprised at how you jumped on this issue and took offense. Please keep in mind the original intent I had when applying for the Adopt-A-Highway program. Location of the sign should be irrelevant. Remember what the sign itself reads. Also, if you read the coin page itself, any extra funds (if any) that came from its production would go right back into highway cleanup events, or could even be diverted to another CITO effort somewhere else. Brian Team A.I. _____ From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of ShadowAce Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:40 AM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] 2007 Arizona CITO Coin Great pimping for the cache and for all the Phoenix people. BUT.... If this is going to be another ARIZONA coin, maybe it should be more ARIZONA and less Phoenix? What?? Well lets see, the coin mentions Brian's cache, but not any other CITO? What about the 6 Cito's in Tucson? Thats one every 2 months. Can Phoenix claim this? Last Phoenix CITO was a year ago What about GCVPRN ? Casa Grande Cito? GCYA3Y? Prescott Cito? GCVYMD? Flagstaff Cito? Arizona has multiple areas adopted by cachers and while it is great to see your advertising for your spot, Please do not call it THE arizona Cito as it is in no way supporting or mentioning the people who have actually been doing the Cito's for the last year. Phoenix cachers have been driving over 100 miles each way to join in the CITOs for Alamo wash and I think that deserves regonition. Maybe we need to create an official Arizona CITO coin for us. Then we can have multiple Official coins and represent the people who are going out to cleanup without creating a cash flow for someone? On 2/20/07, Jake Olson wrote: Brian created the cache to go with the the fact that cachers are the ones cleaning the section of the highway. He is the current owner of the cache, but a few of us still here in Arizona are maintaining it by proxy. Any issues that have come up regarding it, he's forwarded to me and I've promptly taken care of it. As for a LE version, Brian just pointed out to me that perhaps we need a Limited Edition that has a more pronounced hand jesture emphasizing exactly which "finger" is being displayed. (the image was the best I could come up with showing a GPS in use.) Jake - Team A.I. On 2/20/07, Jared Ross < jaredmross@yahoo.com> wrote: I think it's a great idea and the overall design looks good. There are two things that I would question (but not necessarily change) 1. At first glance I thought the "hiker-guy" on the sign had a very powerful middle finger. I thought maybe he was hiking to a new cache and noticed Tim from AZFastFeet already signing the log for the FTF. :) 2. I'm not huge on the C.I.T.O. Always cache being mentioned on the coin. Mostly because what if, God forbid, that cache became archived? My opinion on this one is pretty loose though, I have yet to find that cache so it may be very safe from archival. I'd most likely buy one. Will there be a LE coin similar to the Arizona geocoins? Jared of AZBliss02 ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Casteel To: AZ Geocaching < az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:41:19 PM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] 2007 Arizona CITO Coin This idea has been tossed around for a little while, since it so strongly ties into caching and one of the more important tenets of cachers and CITO. 2007 Arizona CITO Coin < http://www.geocoin-info.net/CITO/index.html > IPB Image Right now we're only gauging interest in the coin before proceeding with the rest of the minting process. Please visit the URL above for more information. ***Update*** Jake smacked me around about this a little bit late this afternoon, because I posted the concept on the Groundspeak forums first instead of here. Oops! I was on the GC forums for something else and the thought came to me so I ran with it. At any rate, here's what has been designed and the purpose right now is to gauge interest in the coin before proceeding. The initial run figures are pretty low (250), but additional minting can occur if demand warrants. What do you folks think? Brian Team A.I. ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com _____ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com