I thought the group here would be interested in reading the following coversation that I had with Jill McCormick who is a Land Steward in the Tucson area. Jill had contacted Geocaching.com and requested to speak to me abut here concerns. Seems we need more Stewards like her.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jill McCormick

To: Ken

Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:22 AM

Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards

Yes, you have my permission to post our conversation on the web site. I do plan to join the mailing list and will encourage as many other site stewards as possible to do the same. It seems you and I both have the same viewpoint that the only way to come to an agreement is for there to be communication between the two groups. Hopefully everyone will keep an open mind and realize that both parties only want what is best. Thank you for all your efforts and for having an interest in preservation. It has been a pleasure talking to you and hope to in the future see you at a site steward event as an Arizona Site Steward.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:58 PM

Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards

I agree and with your thoughts and with your permission I would like to post our conversation on the Az Geocaching web site. I again encourage you, and the other site stewards to join so that we all can exchange ideas and concerns without things getting blown out of proportions. The group on this list can be pretty vocal at times but from what I've seen they are open minded and willing to listen to anyone's point of view. If a geocache is found affecting an archeological site in AZ this mailing list would probably be the quickest way to address the issue and get it moved. As for the rest of my geocaches I have only one left that is near one lonely spiral petroglyph that I found while hiking near my home. The rest are virtual caches and require no hunting at any actual sites.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jill McCormick

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:20 PM

Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards

It is good to finally get to communicate directly with you. I totally agree about the AZ Republic article I do not think that it gave a fair perspective of the situation. I would like to apologize for the site stewards. This issue has been hotly contested by the Site Stewards around Phoenix for quite awhile. I have several geocaches in my area (Yuma) and have never had any problem with vandalism of sites. I have repeatedly questioned them on their opposition to geocachers in general only to hear that geocachers have destroyed many sites in the Phoenix area when I ask what proof they can produce to prove it was geocachers I get th response, " Well we found a geocache there so it must be them". This is the reason I asked them to be the one to make contact with geocachers. I feel I have a more openminded position to this issue. I believe many site stewards are bias against geocachers and are willing to listen to half truths and falsehoods. I am happy to hear that geocachers are out there cleaning up our wilderness areas and educating our youth on preservation and our history. It would be great to enlist you all as site stewards to help us in the cause. I know as with any organization there can be bad apples, but in the time I have worked with the geocachers I have only had great cooperation. That is why I have asked to have the geocaches moved and not removed. Some site stewards are out for blood and to avert a nasty situation I think it would be easiest just to move the caches away from the sites.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:52 PM

Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards

Since the article in the Az Republic was posted this has been a major topic on the mailing list at http://www.azgeocaching.com/ . Brian Cluff runs this site and it is a great resource for anyone interested in Geocaching in Arizona. I would like to suggest that you pass this information along to any of the site stewards that have access to the internet and encourage them to join the mailing list. This site will enable the free flow of communications between the stewards and the majority of the Geocaching community in Arizona.

I found the article in the Arizona republic very poorly researched and considered it a "hit piece" against my hobby. If the quotes made by the land stewards, to the reporter, are accurate I found them very inflammatory and insinuated that I violated some law. I have personally experienced the inaccuracies of some reporters and realize the quotes may not be accurate, or were taken out of context. Still I found the article and alleged statements by the site stewards highly offensive. One of the reasons that I enjoy Geocaching is the opportunity that it gives for me to show my children (4 yrs and 11yrs) the beauty and history that our state has to offer.

Upon reflection I realize that it is not a good idea to place cache container too close to an archeological site as the number of visitors looking for the cache could have the potential to cause damage. Since the cache container from my "Sign From The Past III" has been removed by the site steward I have changed it to a "virtual" cache. What this means is the cache hunter simply needs to find the petroglyps and take photograph of them. As a virtual cache there is no need for the geocacher to "hunt" for a hidden container and should eliminate any possible accidental damage. As for the site It is clearly marked on a topographical map and has a nearby 4x4 road that is only .25 miles away. While visiting this location the only thing I noticed were the actual glyphs and did not see any pottery shards or nearby ruins. Since the site was posted in February it has only had 4 groups visit it.

The Evil "WhereRWee" geocacher ;)

----- Original Message -----

From: Jill McCormick

Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:18 PM

Subject: Geocaching- AZ site stewards

Hi, apparently we have been having some email difficulties and I did not receive your email last Friday Bryan forwarded your message to me today. As Bryan has probably told you I am an Arizona Site Steward. The reason I wanted to contact you was to talk to you about geocaching. First off, I am in no way against geocaching. In fact, I have a longtime geocacher in my site steward region here in Yuma and he has educated me on the sport. However, in other regions of Arizona some site steward beleive that geocaching has been doing great harm to pristine archaeological sites by the increase in foot and vehicle travel. Beleive me, I in no way am saying that geocachers have no right to visit these areas. I have visited both the Arizona and Bryan's geocaching site many, many times and have read the logs of people removing trash from areas and enjoying the beauty of the desert and greatly appreciate your efforts. My goal in contacting you and other geocachers is to expedite an answer to the conflict existing here. What I would like to ask is if you and other geocachers who have geocaches near archaeological or historical sites would move these caches a safe distance from the site so that people who are only interested in finding the cache can do that without disturbing the site. Apparently around the Phoenix area several sites have been almost completely destroyed and it is beleived that the extra traffic from geocaching has played a part in this. I think if we moved these geocaches and allowed the site stewards to continue to monitor the sites, possibly we could then determine what part, if any geocaching played in this. Please let me know your feelings on this matter. I look forward to hearing your reply.