Hmm.. Interesting.. Nope Sorry my comment was _ I stress again _ Not about to Micro or Not to Micro.. It was about GET PERMISSION FOR THE CACHE YOU PLACE.. Then feel free to log how you really feel on a micro or non micro cache. No more wondering if I will be arrested or just asked to get off the property when I look around a power box. On 2/10/07, noshdoo tsoh wrote: > > *"Trust me, just because there are more micros than rural caches, > doesn't mean they're more POPULAR."* > > > > It's not the number of caches that makes them popular, but the number of > finds on each cache. The fact that they are found at a rate exponentially > higher than other caches does indicate popularity. Or am I missing the > definition of 'popular'? Back it up with numbers? ;-) > > * * > > *"We're trying to encourage good micros and urban caches and discourage > the placement of bad ones."* > > > > A noble cause, indeed. Can I see you're scientific study on what is good > and what is bad? You are the decider? Oh, that's right, *trust you*. > > > > Back to you're regularly scheduled rant… > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto: > az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] *On Behalf Of *Jared Ross > *Sent:* Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:42 PM > *To:* listserv@azgeocaching.com > *Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > > > Yeah, I knew that remark was coming. Trust me, just because there are more > micros than rural caches, doesn't mean they're more POPULAR. You conduct a > scientific study and then I'll believe that claim. Furthermore I do not > believe mine (nor AZcachemeister or ShadowAce's) comments were suggesting > that we discourage micros, just crappy ones. :) Honestly, there are hundreds > of great micros and urban hides out there. At the same time, there are > hundreds of horrible micros (apparently they're popular). We're trying to > encourage good micros and urban caches and discourage the placement of bad > ones. > > As I mentioned we do our best to determine whether a cache is one that we > will enjoy or not before going after it, but this doesn't always work. Maybe > if I "complain" about it then the next guy with my tastes will know better. > > Cache and let cache, and let me complain about crappy caches. ;) > > Jared > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: noshdoo tsoh > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:57:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > To no one in particular, and to whomever it applies: > > > > Urban micros are a lot more popular than rural/desert/mountain caches. > Just because you personally don't like urban micro caches doesn't mean there > needs to be some sort of organized effort to discourage them. A lot of > people are visiting and enjoying these types of caches. Really, how hard can > it be to go after only the type of caches you enjoy, instead of going after > all of them, and then complaining about it later? You'll find duds no matter > what type of cache you go after. And of course, the whole thing's just a > game. Sounds like a few cachers may need a vacation from caching itself. > > > > Your trash cache is another's treasure cache. > > > > Simple idea: Cache and let cache. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto: > az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] *On Behalf Of *Regan > Smith > *Sent:* Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:15 PM > *To:* listserv@azgeocaching.com > *Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > > > I have a borrowed idea (360) don't log it do you really need the find??? > Regardless of what alphabet log you use a find on a cache validates it. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto: > az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] *On Behalf Of *Jared Ross > *Sent:* Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:31 PM > *To:* listserv@azgeocaching.com > *Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > > > WARNING: This is a regular sized email. If you're only a fan of micro > emails then ignore this email immediately. > > I really agree with AZcachemeister and ShadowAce. At the same time > ShadowAce's comments have made me realize that I'm not doing much to help > the matter. I'm not very confrontational and I don't like to be very mean > and while I encourage someone with larger cohanes to log exactly how they > feel, I'm not really willing to do that. I have however decided to change my > logging standards. We've become a little more picky when it comes to caches > that we hunt. I'm not saying that we've sworn off micros or urban hides as > there are some out there that are nice. Basically if I'm planning a cache > outing I'll read over the cache description and if it seems suspect I might > skim through a few log entries. If it sounds like its behind a Home Depot > trash compactor then I'm going to take it off our list. Even with a > screening process we still end up doing caches that we would rather not have > done. Sure we could have ignored the cache, IF we would have known what we > were getting into. Admit it, once you're out of the car and searching, you > want to find it. > > Yesterday I grabbed four urban caches. I also drove past about 2 or 3 > others but never even stopped because of the locations. Of those 4, I logged > as follows: > > Cache #1 - It was a tricky cache container in a relatively pointless > location but it belongs to a series and overall it wasn't that bad. My log > entry noted the creativity of the cache and thanked the owner. > > Cache #2 - A LPC cache located close to a main road and across from an > office building. Luckily I could block the traffic with my truck but the > container was too big and made the lamp skirt stick up on one side, making > it that much more obvious. My log entry said almost nothing, "yup, right > where it should have been" and instead of signing off the way I always do > "Thanks, Jared" I wrote "TN/LN, Jared". It's subtle, I know. > > Cache #3 - A good cache with a significant location. The container was > nothing special and the technique was typical, but the location wasn't. My > log entry was long, very detailed (without spoilers) and included a Thank > You at the end. > > Cache #4 - A creative, homemade container in a vagabonds paradise. There > were blankets and other things very nearby that indicate homeless people are > usually here. My log briefly mentioned the cache container being unique and > then I described the homeless persons new "shelter" nearby. I did not thank > the cache owners. > > This morning I found another urban cache that while not in an especially > interesting spot, it was a well planned hide and well stocked, large, cache. > I also left a very long detailed log entry for this cache expressing my > enjoyment of finding it. > > AZcachemeister is right that we need to find a way to increase the quality > of urban caches. Urban hides have a place in geocaching and allow for many > people to enjoy the game that might not be able to find the rural hides. > Helping each other make better decisions about what caches to go after is > one thing that we can do to help. While my way isn't blunt and to the point, > I'm trying to praise good caches by leaving detailed log entries and ignore > bad caches by not giving them the praise they DON'T deserve. > > Another, more obvious way of making a difference is by hiding our own > caches. I'm not very good at this and often struggle to justify my cache > placements because I either think they aren't creative enough or I question > whether or not the location is good enough. From what I've seen lately > though I would rather find an altoids container in a park than find a well > disguised cache behind Wal-Mart. > > Quickly, in regards to the concern about having your log entry deleted if > you leave negative feedback. You have a couple options. > 1. You could keep logging the same message back to the cache every time it > is deleted making a note that it was deleted. If anyone is watching the > cache they'll become aware of the situation and maybe that will affect their > next cache placement. > 2. You could log a seemingly innocent log entry and then a day or two > later edit that log entry and add back the comments in your original log > that was deleted. Owners aren't notified when a log entry is edited. > 3. While this one is controversial some people do it. If your log entry is > repeatedly deleted then log a find on your own cache and specify that it is > a log entry for GCxxxxx and the reason you can't log it there followed by > your original log entry. > > Anyone else have any ideas or comments on how we can improve the caches in > our state? Maybe we need a special acronym. Instead of TFTC we could have > DWYT (Don't Waste Your Time). Of course we could always start using this > website to generate log entries for us: > http://loungingatwalden.googlepages.com/RandomLog.html > My favorite generated log entry: "This cache was ill-conceived and > ill-received. You should turn your GPS over to the nearest authorities! TNLN > and almost didn't bother signing the log!!" > > Jared of AZBliss02 > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: AZcachemeister > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:17:52 AM > Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > Well, I don't like to insult people by saying their cache is crap, but > aren't they insulting us by bringing us to those areas? > There is nothing of interest at the back of the 99¢ store, nor anything > clever about a shoe-polish can stuffed in a crack in the building. > If we don't start taking some responsibility for our activities, someone > else will. > If enough people start 'telling it like it is' then the cachers hiding > those type of caches just might get the hint. > ------------------------------ > > > > Regan Smith wrote: > > Tftc > > > > Tnlnsl > > > > Honesty will get your log deleted… > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [ > mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] > *On Behalf Of *ShadowAce > *Sent:* Friday, February 09, 2007 6:15 PM > *To:* listserv@azgeocaching.com > *Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!! > > > > Scott, > > With all due respect. Oct 25, 2005 4:02 PM you sent email about how > Micros were evil and now that you had finally reached the top find counter > in the state you were not going to be going for micros any longer. How only > Urban caches had any reason to exist and people should help stop the spread > of micro spew. > > Yet a very large percent of your cache finds are micros even after the > posts about how Micros should go away. 1114 terrain 1 and 735 difficulty 1 > according to the stats you placed on your profile. While I am sick of lamp > poles and guard rails myself, I merely pointed that story out because of how > many people caching in Arizona tell me at almost every single event > 'Permission is not required' or 'Its public property'. > > If cachers want to place a micro every 600 feet they will. If they throw > caches out with no intention of ever maintaining them, they will. Why? > Because every other cacher is writing 'Great cache, thanks for the hide' and > not writing.... > > *I was able to grab this cache quickly though I had to shield the location > with my rear side from the dumpster divers.* or *After sifting through the > garbage left by the homeless in the area, we found your cache. * > > *Never would have known about this place, because we generally avoid > dumpsters. > > * I have been trying to be very honest in my logs about areas such as > these and instead of getting 'Hay thanks for warning me that place was going > to be so terrible', I receive emails saying 'Why are you such an ass? If you > dont like the cache, dont go find it!' > > Welp the problem with this is from the writeups you have no idea if it > will be a real interesting place such as the one we found last night called > Hope, or in a pile of trash until you get to the location. > > So instead of complaining about the TYPE of cache, I was merely pointing > out that Permission should be obtained on ALL cache hides. Heck I spent 2 > years getting permission for one place. 4 weeks to get permission for > another cache. 5 weeks of emails to get permission for one location and then > other people just throw more caches in the area when they came.. Yep I > caught hell from the person that granted me permission to place mine after > that.. Joy joy... > > If people hate micros so much, why do they continue to grab them and > write 'Thanks for the fun'? > > > > On 2/9/07, *Roping The Wind* wrote: > > > The geocacher who placed the altoid tin says he "wished others had told > him > this was not a good place to put a cache". I can only laugh at that > statement. The gc.com site clearly states that you must get permission to > place a cache on private property!!! Did he not read that little tidbit of > information? Typical of alot of urban cache hides. Is he now trying to put > it onto the geocaching community as a whole? Making the whole > game/community > look bad? > > I do agree though that law enforcement over reacted... kinda like the > little > Boston cartoon 'bomb' scare thing. > > The other thing that comes to my mind is that he is relatively new to the > game and this is most of what he has seen so far... a bunch of altoid tins > behind stores and on electrical boxes and the like. So, he might have > thought it was totally ok to hide a cache like this... even though, as I > mentioned before, he should have gotten permission to place it in the > first > place. > > I do like this quote though: "I've discovered that I really don't like > urban > caching. I'd rather do it in the woods. That's where it's really fun," he > said. > > As of the past month and a half now, I have not found an urban cache hide. > I > dont mind going a week without finding a cache anymore. But I have decided > that I only want to do rural area caches. Caches that require a hike to > get > to or maybe a nice 4x4 drive or maybe just a drive by cache placed in a > beautiful location way outside the city limit signs. Or maybe caches > placed > in small towns is ok too. Basically, caches placed with the location in > mind. I have been using the DGP geocaching site lately to pick and choose > caches to find. > > The past month or so, I have found a much greater enjoyement for the game > again. It feels like the old days of caching 4 or 5 years ago when I first > > began. I can't say I will never find an urban cache again. But I am > carefully picking and choosing which ones I want to find. > > Scott > Team Ropingthewind > > _________________________________________________________________ > Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona 's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > > > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > > > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > > > > > Arizona 's Geocaching Resource > > > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona 's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 carsat Yahoo! > Autos. > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go > > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > >