You have such good tact Brian... That is a good thing!! I would think that there is a good number of geocachers who have or can find geocaches without a GPS. Geesh, I had my log deleted because I mentioned that I found it w/o my GPS, however that does not mean that I would nor do feel sorry for anyone or would I put them down for requiring a GPS. Now of course if that is not the way he meant it then I guess I will look stupid for a while... ;) Skill or not, its a game. Does not matter how you find it just have fun and find it........Thats the point, I think! On 11/14/06, Brian Casteel wrote: > > I wouldn't say that Denny hasn't had a DNF before. Some choose to not > log their DNFs (no idea what his DNF count is like either) for whatever > reason and for awhile I wouldn't either because I'd come back and eventually > find it, if it was still there in the first place. While not beating around > the proverbial bush, he's also right. Most need the GPS to get into the > general vicinity, but there are some who cache exclusively without a GPS. > I've found a dozen or so sans GPS just by studying satellite maps and > topography, part because my GPS was out for repairs or I just wanted to see > if I could do it. I think there's one cache EvilFish still thinks I didn't > find without a GPS, but I did. J It took 45 minutes of searching, and > would have taken much less with something to narrow it down a little more, > but oh well. The rubber seal on my old Vista was coming off and it was in > Olathe, KS at the Garmin Spa & Reconditioning Center. > > > > I think the point he is trying to make is that regardless of skill level, > once in the general vicinity (which for me is 75-100' or so on average), you > use where the GPS is pointing you as a guide and then focus on the > environment and not a 3" LCD in order to find the cache. > > > > Brian > > Team A.I. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto: > az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] *On Behalf Of *EMa > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:20 AM > *To:* listserv@azgeocaching.com > *Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Am I missing something - Magellen 200s > > > > Well I guess we all cant be perfect. Its a shame that some people never > experience a DNF. What a feeling to know that someone hid such a good cache > that you need to come back a 2nd and 3rd time just to find it. > > On 11/14/06, *Ford, Denny* wrote: > > Ok I will finally pipe in, > If you are a good Geocacher, if you get within 25 feet of the cache you > can find it, does not matter the tools, it is the skill of the cacher. > For the Amateurs who actually need the GPS to find the cache I feel > sorry for you. > > Denny Ford, Tres Hombres > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com > [mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of > loranwilcox@chartermi.net > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:33 PM > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Cc: Guy Aldrich > Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Am I missing something - Magellen 200s > > Still nice to have the Discriptions and Past Logs so I would give up on > the PDA. > > Team Sand Dollar > > ---- Guy Aldrich wrote: > > I have to say the Garmin 60CSX is the most accurate unit I've seen > > under all conditions and I have a Magellan meridian and a explorist > > 210. With that new Cirf chip it seems to get you to ground zero > > quicker . The explorist 210 has the most bang for the buck,You really > > don't need a PDA because it displays type of container,full > > name,terrain,difficulty,date last found and the full hint. > > > > On 11/13/06, Brian Casteel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't recall having problems like that in most cases. In fact, > often > > > times while sitting on my butt writing my cache log, I'll look over > to the > > > GPS and watch it flirt with 0' on a regular basis. If it happens to > get no > > > closer than 5' on a cache, I'd consider that quite excellent > overall. > > > Magellan has advantages over Garmin and likewise Garmin over > Magellan. The > > > most obvious between the 2 is the abundance of mapping software > options > > > Garmin has available to the very limited Magellan options. Of > course, with > > > the newer gen Garmin units, satellite acquisition is much better > with the > > > new SeRF chip. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > Team A.I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com > > > [mailto: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On > > > Behalf Of Cordell Harris > > > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:06 AM > > > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > > > Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Am I missing something - Magellen 200s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK Scott. Did I fail to mention that we have had the opportunity to > compare > > > the performance of (7) seven Magellan and Garmins against each other > while > > > doing something like 500 plus caches all over the US. In my > original > > > missive a forgot about the emap unit. The units we used are the > Garmin > > > Emap, 76CS, Etrex Legend, Etrex Legend Vista Cx. The 3 Magellans > were all > > > Sportrack Pros. We seem to keep dropping them! Maybe I should also > note > > > that none of the units failed operationally. Of all the Garmins the > Etrex > > > Legend is the best, e.g. sensititivy and accuracy. All the others > have/had > > > serious errors of 7 to 10 ft on the high resolution scale. These > errors are > > > consistent with caches that were placed by careful knowledgeable > cachers. > > > We have also had opportunity to compare waypoints established > scientifically > > > by standards. The 3 Magellan Sportrack Pros were all perfect > replicas and > > > were dead on. I am not hostile toward Garmin, but cannot ignore > results. > > > Both mapsource and mapsend topos (I have both) will allow exchange > of > > > waypoints but not maps. What I would like to be able to do is use > Delorme > > > topo maps (superior) in either or both brands of receivers with > Garmin > > > waypoint symbols. My backhand at Garmin is simply because they are > the > > > industry leaders in terms of sales and promotions and for now get to > set the > > > trend. Magellan Sportrack Pros are a great deal and very adequate > for > > > geocaching. I repeat my offer to trade the etrex legend vista Cx > for a > > > eXplorist 500. There is nothing wrong with the vista Cx except the > offset > > > mentioned above. > > > > > > > > > On 11/13/06, Roping The Wind wrote: > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cordell Harris" < cordh5@gmail.com> > > > > > > >Magellan has better, more user friendly receivers that are more > sensitive > > > >and accurate. If >unconvinced, try caching with the owner of a > Magellan > > > >Sportrack Pro. Presently, we own two >Garmins a etrex legend and > an etrex > > > >legend vista cx. > > > > > > The etrex line uses a patch antenna, which IMHO, is crap. Upgrade > to the > > > new > > > 60CSX and you will probably never see anything more accurate. I do > not > > > beleive that you can compare two GPS units for accuracy on a single > > > geocache > > > or any geocache for that matter. The cache owner's coordinates > could be off > > > for one. Also, both your GPS units will give slightly different > readings on > > > where the cache is supposed to be. To find true accuracy, take a > waypoint > > > and mark it with your GPS. Of course, with any GPS, you have to > leave it > > > there for a few minutes for a most accurate reading (too many > inexperienced > > > cachers hide a cache, hit mark on their GPS and leave and dont > allow the > > > GPS > > > to average location). Now, walk away a few hundred feet or more and > then > > > come back to ground zero and see where your GPS takes you. Do this > with two > > > units that you want to compare and see which one is most accurate. > > > > > > Of course, as Loran said, all GPS's these days are decently > accurate. They > > > will all take you to a waypoint and get you within 30 feet or less. > Do the > > > example above once and you will find that both GPS's did their job > well > > > enough. If you want to find truly which unit is better, with there > still > > > being slight errors in GPS's, you will still need to do the example > above > > > several times to average your results out to truly see which unit > is > > > better. > > > Seems nit picky. Well it is... as I just said, all GPS's are > accurate > > > enough. Still, if you want a GPS for just geocaching or marking > waypoints, > > > then a patch antenna Etrex or a Magellan GPS Blazer 12 (now that is > > > ancient! > > > and I have one too) is all you need. If you want to mark a little > hole in > > > the ground that an ant just went in to and then come back a week > later to > > > find it... then you need to spend the bigger dollars for a unit > with a 12 > > > channel SiRFstar III high-sensitivity (WAAS-enabled) chip and > built-in quad > > > helix antenna, with external antenna connection (like the Garmin > 60csX). > > > Either units will get you to a geocache or any point for that > matter. But > > > the latter technology will, on average, get you to a specific point > more > > > consistantly. > > > > > > >Garmins are overpriced/overrated and as industry leaders don't > like the > > > >strangle hold they maintain >on proprietary mapping software. We > badly > > > >need mapping software that will function universally in > >handhelds. > > > > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt Magellan also use proprietary > mapping > > > software? (Mapsend). I could be wrong on this, but I beleive both > Magellan > > > and Garmin have their own specific mapping software that must be > used for > > > mapping. I think both brands will accept some other mapping > software, but > > > only for uploading and transfering of waypoints, tracks, etc and > not maps. > > > If you want maps in your unit, you have to use their own mapping > software > > > (Mapsend or Mapsource). > > > > > > Scott > > > Team Ropingthewind > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! > > > > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&sour > ce=hmtagline > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > > > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > > > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > > > > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > > > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: This message is confidential, intended only for the > named > > > recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or > exempt from > > > disclosure under applicable law. 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If you are not the intended recipient(s), > you are notified that the dissemination, distribution or copying of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are > not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail > address or by calling the telephone number associated with this > transmission. Please delete this e-mail from your computer (or discard this > fax). Thank You. > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > -- EMa<<<--->>>Geo Gypsy