Then why the secrecy of the caches until you're sponsored by two people? Allowing open view of caches should exist regardless of whether or not one is a member and sponsored. The secrecy of available caches to me implies that someone is trying to hide something. The thing that really gets me now is that you in particular referred to sponsors above you as your 'upline'. I don't know if that was meant in jest regarding Jake's comment, but I personally have some bad memories of being pitched by people involved in Quixtar to join up and sell my soul so a billionaire above me can buy a new jet. Jake seems to be right in that respect, that's it's the Geocaching MLM. If you don't believe that the site was founded by a disgruntled GC.com cacher, and that most of the people migrating are doing so not because it's a 'new thing', but because they too are disgruntled, I think you need to read the forums over there a little more closely. Brian Team A.I. _____ From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Gale Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:04 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com; ShadowAce Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Poll 1) Ironic that many of those who are protesting terracaching as something that breaks rules have not read the site yet. I will sponsor anyone who just wishes to check out the site for themselves. Im sure you can get anyone else on the listserv who is a member at tc.com to be the second sponsor. Then when you are done looking at the site, just revoke your acceptance of your sponsors, and you are no longer there. 2) Moving caches are more likely to harm geocaching in general than virtuals are. Im glad that manhole cover virtuals are gone, but there are many great virtuals that cant be done on gc.com anymore. Those I miss. Terracaching is not just locationless and virtual caches. Nor is it only those who are annoyed with gc.com and are taking their toys and playing elsewhere. The site itself doesnt want it to turn into a trashing of gc.com site. ShadowAce wrote: I have doubts that I will ever go to terracaching.com's website because of all the information I have found in the past about it. I will give some examples here: Terracaching, in my opinion was created by someone pissed at geocaching and Jeremy. The same people now claim that all of there caches are super high quality. It is not about the numbers, it is about the destination. Terracaches will be rewarding and worth the experience unlike those number chasers at geocaching.com. Terracaching is a game for the community, by the community without one person who can run the site. A community of serious cachers and a listing of terracaches hidden all around the world available exclusively to TerraCaching members. (hmm I guess anyone who uses geocaching.com is not serious about caching) http://southeast.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=general&num=1109778749&acti on=display&start=0 Insolence, and Jeremy's iron fist. Took away the thing I enjoyed most about placing a cache, the "decorating", and the little weasel won't even give the issue a hearing or a response. I'll never place another GC.com cache, and doubt I'll ever log another one. TerraCaching http://www.terracaching.com/ Referrals: 7 Angry Kid's new listing site which emphasizes quality caches. What is the terracaching profile? Someone who likes caches that are worth logging. Whether they are placing or hunting them, these are people who are interested purely in the caching experience. There are some people who might think this means tremendous hikes, or incredibly clever puzzles, or merely interesting voyages to places worth appreciating. With any of these categories, it should be a quality experience. Terracachers are more likely to just hunt a few caches in a day, than try to hit every cache in the area on the same day. (So the same people who geocache will become different when they terracache?) The parts in ( )'s are my input all others are straight from webpages. Now, to me this seems like terracaching was designed by a bunch of bitter cachers who want to prove that geocaching.com sucks. They claim to have the highest quality of caches, but you have to get sponsored to see if this is true. >From the examples others have thrown out the quality is no different then any of the geocaching.com listings, actually they may be less. So Why would I join a bunch of elitist who are out to do nothing but bad talk the location that brought my family into a hobby we have come to live and love? Oh, yes, they allow virtuals. Saddly I got tired of reading all the historical markers and being able to get cache finds by searching the internet. I and my children like finding items and finding containers. I have looked in the forums and found that while some good virtuals are turned down for one reason or another, it seems to be the 'What is the serial number of the manhole cover' type virtuals that make it to the forums to complain about not being listed. Myself? I have seen enough manhole covers to last a lifetime, but I am sure they are quality and should be listed on terracaching. Lets not forget the listings on private property that are able to be placed in Texas now that were denied because the property owner was able to see them on geocaching, but cannot even check on terracaching without sponsors. No, I wish you the best of luck and joy with terracaching and I hope you have a great time with it, but I will not be going that route until groundspeak is dead and we need to find another way to play. I think I would be more interested in ::: ---------- http://movingcache.com/ Welcome to Movingcache.com! Are you never first to find at a cache? Well that all ends now! If you're fast enough you will be FTF on our caches! Yes it's true that you may not be quite as fast as you thought, and find only some flagging tape where a cache should be, but sure enough, a day or two later it will show up somewhere again ready for you to discover its secret location. But is finding a cache good enough? We did not think so and we developed a new spin around the game. Each time a cache is placed, or hidden the player doing the hiding or finding gets points. What are the point structures? That is totally up to the cache owner! The cache owner sets up rules for the cache based on Time, Distance, Difficulty and Terrain. For instance: the longer a cache holder (person who last found the cache) keeps it in their hands, the fewer points they get. The further they move it from where they found it, the more points they get. If the hider puts it in a difficult terrain, they get less points, the finder gets more. That is an example of the rules; you may wish to have less focus on distance, and more on time. You may not care what the terrain or difficulty rating is and always give the same points. It is totally configurable by the cache owner. Enjoy the games, we hope one moves through your area soon! ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so: "Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges -- "Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!" Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com