Denny,

 I can only speak for myself in this but I do not believe what I said about
merging the old and new logs has anything to do with numbers.. You will
notice I have logged DNF's. I have never bragged of having 100% success
rate. Actually I brag about driving from Tucson to Pheonix 4 times (or was
it 5) for no reason really other then to try SHOVE OFF one more time.. I
sometimes compile my DNF's and Founds together because if it was over 6
months ago that I logged the DNF, nobody reads it, so the story I write
about the cache is missing half or more of the information about my trip.

 I really do get sick of hearing "It's not about the numbers".. For some
people it is ALL about the numbers, others could not care less.. I log
caches as I can. When I have an enjoyable time on a cache either because of
the cache or because of the people I was with, I like to write a story about
that cache.  If I was about the numbers and removing my DNF's for this
reason, I would not still be angry about a cache owner deleting my DNF log
in January 2004 (3 months after we began caching). Thats correct, a DNF log
and the owner deleted it because they did not like the story about my 7 year
old climbing a peak to get a cache that has only been logged by 6 people in
over 11 months... Yep it is a touch climb and this little guy made it all
the way, it was his first real hike of his life and I was so damned proud of
him. We got cliffed out within .2 miles of the cache he looked at me and
said 'Daddy I really want to make it'.. So we found a small chimney in the
rocks and I made him crawl up under me so I could lay down on him if
needed..

 We got to the top and found a container.. Signed the sheets and got off the
mountain. When we got home we realized we had not signed the logbook but
signed a summit log instead (we had never heard of this either)... Cache
owner said I complained about the cache and nobody is stupid enough to
confuse a summit log with a cache and deleted my log..  Yep I still have a
copy if you want to read it..

 So please do not say that I delete my DNFs and convert them into a
narration to pad numbers. I do it because we like to write stories about our
day. If it is a simple urban 1 of 300 same caches, no we wont write a long
story but then again, we wont worry about converting the DNF into one later
either.

My $0.02 cents.. Your milage may vary...

No recovery options available when the kids love it this much.


-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Ford,
Denny
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:41 PM
To: 'listserv@azgeocaching.com'
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] If It's Not a Find, What Is It Then?


I am finally going to speak up,
The ethical question only comes about because people are too worried about
the stupid numbers and not the actual enjoyment of finding the cache.  I
admit I was one of those, but if you don't look at the numbers, does it
really matter whether or not you find the cache.  I can be a challenge on
ones that are very difficult to reach or to grab due to high traffic or
difficulty where it takes you three or four times to sign the log.  I agree
the DNF should be left in tact and quit worrying about the numbers and just
enjoy the journey.


recovering GEOholic

Tres Hombres
Denny