I am not a big fan of virtual caches, but that's okay. I do like museums, though, ever since my mother dragged me into them all over the western US. I like stashes that require some hiking and seeking. Just driving up to a location, jumping out, and claiming a cache with little real effort is not my idea of fun, but to each his own. The first cache I found (the Narrows, near Pine, AZ) was done without a GPSr, because I did not have one then. I have placed a few that can be found by using either a GPSr or one's brain. In short, I support you. Allyn --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!