I agree and why does it have to be hidden any way. I am creating some 
new containers that do not want to be hidden. Scott you may see some 
this week end :-) .
 You know it is strange if you put a cache out in plane site someone has 
to pile rocks or sticks on it. or even move it to where they think it 
should be!

-- 
  Patrick Brown
    PANDA77
    N7FHB
 
 Check out
http://forsale.wickenburg.net/
http://www.geocaching.com/
http://www.azgeocaching.com/
http://users.w3az.net/panda77/
http://www.robsonsminingworld.com/ 



Roping The Wind wrote:

> Well, lately I am getting back to the way geocaching used to be and 
> searching for caches in rural areas. by hiking, off roading, horseback 
> riding, hot air balloon, helicopter, whatever... just getting out into 
> the great outdoors to find full size containers in a scenic wilderness 
> setting. With that, I have noticed something that has sometimes 
> annoyed me in the past and has caused me to have a change of heart! :) 
> Have you ever hiked several miles out into the desert or forest or 
> down into a canyon only to come out without a find? After 30 minutes 
> of searching you consulted the cache page for the decrypted hint, only 
> to find there is no hint!? I did just that today. Actually, there was 
> a decrypted hint, but it didnt elude any to where the actual cache was 
> hidden, just the general location of the cache (which I already knew, 
> the coordinates took me there!). It turns out this cache is indeed 
> missing, after an email with the cache owner.
>
> I also got an email from a cacher today asking me where another cache 
> that I had recently found was hidden, as I was the last finder of that 
> cache. He had hiked up to the top of one of the inner city mountain 
> peaks yesterday, only to not find the cache.
>
> I feel that if you are going to send someone on a hike into the desert 
> or a long climb to the top of a mountain (or even a 15 mile off road 
> vehicle turture test into a canyon)... that there should be a hint 
> included that gives some definition to where the cache is actually 
> hidden. The game of geocaching has always been about the location. 
> Location, location, location. A cache needs to be decently hidden so 
> muggles cant find it. But a cache in the wilderness doesnt have to be 
> hidden so hard that a cacher cant find it. Afterall, you did bring 
> them to that location to enjoy the location, didnt you? This is 
> especially true if you are going to hide a micro in a wilderness type 
> setting. Or maybe in a canyon with steep walls around it that might 
> cause the GPS to not get a good signal or in a dense forest. If after 
> 30 minutes of searching and you cant find it... you look at the 
> hint... you can then be more confident that you are looking in the 
> correct spot or if maybe the cache is perhaps gone. I spent over 1 
> hour searching for a cache today that I ended up not finding (it is 
> indeed gone missing). Even though there was a suspect item that I 
> beleived was holding the cache. There were lots of rocks and hiding 
> spots in the area... so I did continue to search. Afterall, I hiked 2 
> miles in to find the cache, I have to give it a good effort to try and 
> find it.
>
> Anyways, I am not picking on the one cache I didnt find today... just 
> using it as an example. It just made me think about my caches and 
> geocaching etiquette in general. My first cache RTW-1 requires a 
> rather tough climb to the top of a mountain. I would sure feel bad if 
> someone made a hike/climb all the way up there only to not be able to 
> find the cache. I also firmly beleive in the 'no log, no find' rule 
> (unless it is a virtual of course!). So, with that... I have had a 
> change of heart! :) I have gone back and edited both of my caches to 
> provide a decrypted hint on each of them! Prior, RTW-1 just had a 
> smart a** hint that simply said "hint?!".  Now, there is a hint to 
> give some direction to where the cache is hidden. I also mention in 
> the log, as I always have, what kind of container the seeker is 
> looking for (an ammo box). There are alot of rocks up there and alot 
> of hiding spots. I dont beleive the hint has to straight up tell the 
> seeker where the cache is, but it should provide some honest clue that 
> will help someone narrow down the potential hiding spots. This way, 
> they at least can be confident they are looking in the correct spot 
> and that they didnt maybe input the wrong coords into their GPS.
>
> Scott
> Team Ropingthewind
>
> _____