Hey now...I never said people couldn't express their opinions about what's going on. :) Too many times, things have become a personal issue, and this is where flaming comes from, justifying the statement about fighting/bickering. Complaining about a certain cache type (in this case, the now acronym'd LUM), could easily offend someone who hid such a cache, such as newbies to the scene that I mentioned in my previous post. Some may roll their eyes at the prospect of it, but I'd be willing to bet that it turned at least one person off from caching because others thought it wasn't good enough. At this point, the discussion has remained extremely civil, something I'm glad for. There have been groups that have all but imploded because of such disagreements, and the civility of our responses so far has been refreshing. MOOG is a perfect example of what was once a strong group that dissolved due to such vehement differences of opinion that they reached a point where agreeing to disagree was no longer an option. Also, I'm not sure how I said discussion was harmful, but rather the move to revolt against Geocaching.com itself for the imposing of rules designed to keep it good for all. The statement that "you can't please everyone all the time" is too true here. There will always be disagreement on caches. My latest cache is a 10-stage night cache that weaves around a park nearby. Because one person brought a 1-million candle-power spotlight (that died in about 10 minutes), others present for the group funny ha-ha complained because they 'didn't have a light that big'. Since the cache wasn't approved yet, we all agreed to meet one evening and let them search for it as a group. A few didn't even bring flashlights (um, it's a night cache people) while others brought the $.99 special from BigLots!. When I submitted the cache for approval, I specified that at minimum a 2D MagLite type light was preferred, primarily due to the ability to focus the beam. I also specified that a keen set of eyes were needed, as my placement of the Firetacks added to the challenge. I'm used to that aspect of it, but just hope that if something comes out of this such as individual state groups governing caches in cooperation, not defiance of Geocaching.com, that it's done in a clean manner and one that benefits all. Not just for the purpose of thumbing noses at those who are trying to keep it good for all. Brian Team A.I. -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Scott Wood Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:17 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Mo' bettah caches! At 10:54 AM 3/8/2005, you wrote: >walking across a Walmart parking lot and checking random light >poles. I'll still grab a find on those if I'm nearby, because to me it at >least shows the owner that their effort was appreciated by my logging a >find on their cache. Could it also justify the 'lame urban cache' >model? Of course. While we will have to disagree about much of your post, namely about the discussion of these topics. What you think is harmful to the cause, others see as healthy and open things up to discussion. People don't have to agree about things, and no one should ever have to feel that they can't post on a topic because others will disagree with them. One of the reasons for a list like this is so that people can express opinions and share ideas. What you call "fighting/bickering/ridiculing" others simply call a discussion. The one thing I will agree with you about is not going out and finding the caches you don't care for. We were guilty of that for quite awhile, and to some level might still be, but take a look at the latest log I posted. I posted a note saying that as I approached the cache area, it became clear that this was going to be a cache that I just didn't care for. Here is the link. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=6668268b-1316-4c3e-bd 3c-fede9753e0a0 ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com DISCLAIMER: This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at either the e-mail address or by calling the telephone number associated with this transmission. Please delete this e-mail from your computer (or discard this fax). Thank You. ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com