> so the questions begins... shouldn't there be a better way to determine > land ownership? is there a good website or some sort of free map > available? can a Trust Land Permit be obtained over the phone or internet? Someone's already pointed out how to get the permit, but this site has all the details: http://www.land.state.az.us/programs/natural/rec_offroad_permit.htm The State Land Department (AKA "The Land Trust") has no objection to Geocaching. But caching or otherwise, you can be nicked for a pretty hefty fine if you are found on Trust Land without the permit, so it's a pretty good investment of fifteen or twenty dollars. For most folks that's probably less than the gas it costs to drive to a patch of Trust Land these days. Steve Team Tierra Buena