Well, so far I've tried twice to send this and it has bounced. Hm. Here goes, maybe third time is the charm? Despite the fact that this school subject is OFF TOPIC I would just like to say that I believe that it does vary some school-to-school. My daughter (7th grade) attends an "excelling" school (specifically designated as such) with standardized test scores and other parameters far above the state and I think the national average. (Bradshaw Mtn Middle School in Dewey, near Prescott). Just thought I would throw a positive, if still off-topic, comment in the fray. ON -TOPIC, I was in Phoenix Monday to take my daughter to the allergy Dr. Since she had some testing done, we had a few hours to kill, so of course, we cached. Will be posting the logs soon. Gale, you will be happy to know that your "GPS:prn" is still in place. GUY, I swear you must have a micro at, in, under, over or somehow attached to every stinkin' bridge in Phoenix!! Trisha Lightning Prescott On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 00:22:51 -0700, "Bill" wrote: A tirade about ESL or "bad" kids and teachers does nothing to address problems in schools.  On average, schools in Arizona are around the midpoint of states in the US, based upon achievement test scores.  Not too bad, but still far from perfect.   I have been teaching Community College here in AZ for 22+ years, so I have seen the product turned out by our public schools.  We get some great kids.  Every year some of them amaze me with their brilliance, dedication to learning, and work ethic.  And, they still find time to chase the other gender!  Don't sell our kids short.  They are doing pretty well overall.   If you really want to improve the schools, get involved in your kid's education.  Education is a partnership between the parents and teachers.  Neither can do it alone.  Oh, and a free, quality education is a RIGHT, not a priviledge.   Judging by the quality of the spelling and grammar in a recent negative post about education, I can understand why some people think the schools are failing.  Not every kid gets a great education, but overall I would give our public schools in AZ a "B."   If you want to go the private school route, one of my sons teaches at a VERY expensive private high school in Tucson.  For about 30K per year, you can just send your child there.   Bill in Willcox