As a cache owner I just like to be informed if someone has made
an effort to find the cache and did not succeed.  
	Team Seeking posted a "no-find" on one of our caches, and when I
checked on it, the container was in fact missing.  I found out later
that another team had tried to locate it, but never logged the "no-find"
or posted a note.  This was a bit frustrating.  If this team had taken
the time to do so, Team Seeking wouldn't have wasted time trying to
locate something that was not there.
	If teams, for some reason, would rather post a note than log a
"no-find", I'm all for it. It really does not bother me if it is logged
as a "no-find" or posted as a note.  As long as the cache owner and
caching community are made aware.

Aus Dem Kasten

-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Pat
Thompson
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:27 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds.

We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No 
Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by 
e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she could

determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed 
finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined 
that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching 
community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which 
he did in a very short period of time.

In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually 
exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no 
amount of hunting is going to find it.

In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually 
renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume 
are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No Find"

as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in the

first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No 
Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. 
Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my 
view that the person who reported it should be entitled to  delete the 
"No Find" from his/her log.

However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical 
value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, 
the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was 
found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or 
replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache 
was actually missing.

I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of 
priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest of

establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of 
"No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy with

the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this 
distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose.

Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the 
geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime.

Team Seeking
Pat & Jan Thompson








Team Seeking
Pat Thompson


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