Brian you would make a great grenade tosser....(close but no cigar)The geocaching community just seems to find trouble and route around it... kinda like the internet itself is supposed to do. would that be why no one is in the chat room when I am? Ok here is the final word for now, (So, if you have any interest at all left, feel free to answer my request for clarification and I'll try to answer the question you meant to ask.) I asked the question in reference not to be mean be little or be moan the team thing, it was in reference to the fact that you guys (that be Cacheless and Webbman) use like major techno things on your cache adventures, I mean when you drive down the road little kids complain to their mothers that their Gameboys are dead..... the question was in reference to going back to the basics that being ONLY a GPS... ( The last was after our previous marathon. In that thread, I described our very geeky setup. One GPS in the truck with the laptop and mapping software, one GPS in the field, power inverter, Palm book, MapPoint, Topo, iPaq, and a whole mess of wires.) Now if there was a way for this one dimensional form of communication to convey the voice inflections you would have heard the humor, and not read more into the question than what was said. Besides I think I upset Loran as he misspelled his team name, we at team Evil Fish have found 5 caches without a GPS just going off the clues and notes people have posted along with find logs at caches then again I was thinking about Kosh, and how cryptic he spoke then again so did Kosh, but Ivoniva never did get an answer to her question about that anyway... it is only a game for those who don't play Regan the Fish of Team Evil Fish with sore fingers