I've logged 22 "no finds", but have been able to return to 12 of them and find the cache later. I also leave the original "no find" log entry, so others can see where I had problems. Most of the remaining 12 no finds were caused by the cache actually not being there. But I still have a few that I didn't originally find that I need to return to and find (Loop the Loop, Cave Creek Recreation...). Larry Farquhar Team "Wyle E" www.happy-wanderers.com