I very much agree with Steve, Loran, and Scott on this one. I dont think locationless caches are 'geocaching'. Team Ropingthewind has only logged 1 locationless cache. (That was the one brought up in this thread). We decided that would be the first and the last locationless cache this team ever logs. It felt kinda weak when I 'found' that cache and it certainly didnt feel like geocaching to me. I certainly think there is a place for locationless caching... but, it should be a different section of geocaching.com (kinda like the benchmarks). For me to log a cache, I require a GPS to take me to the coordinates. (the other) Scott Team Ropingthewind _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx