I've had a couple E-mail's with Brett, owner of the "Madonna of the trail #11" cache. He was very understanding and has modified the cache page and has included requirements. He now asks the seeker to Email him an identification of a nearby building. Brett may be joining our discussion list here. I know I was the trouble maker on this topic, but it bothered me that something could be posted as a cache, without any definite goal to achieve. Yet Lincoln tries to post regular caches in the Prescott area, and is told he has too many already. Okay, I'll go back to being primarily a lurker and stop stirring up trouble. I'm blaming it on the heat and all of the forest closures. It's so frustrating to see all of these caches in the mountains. I want to get out of the heat and go find them!!!! Larry Farquhar Team "Wyle E" www.happy-wanderers.com