wow I have talked to harp about the cache .... and maysome day try for it I hope if I am ever lucky enough to be in the area....and from our conversation it is not somewere ...that a ranger is is going to find it...or anyone that is not looking for it ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Sullivan To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Bass Ackwards Cache > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Scott Nicol wrote: > > > Some sad news as I awake this morning to read my emails. Above is the email > > from Hap McDaniel in response to my email to him about the Bass Ackwards > > Cache. You know, the cache that is over 530 days old without a find! That is > > the official news from the cache owners mouth. > > When I posted my off the cuff comment about it being the longest cache > without a find, I half expected somebody to figure out that there might be > a reason (like, for example, it's not there.. or is in a difficult to > access location). > > > Am I the first geocacher to actually inquire to the cache owner about this > > cache? > > Probably. I didn't, because I had no way of actually going out and > finding it should the owner come back and say "yep, it's still > there." Secondly, I assume that any cache that is not archived or marked > unavailable is still there (see rant below). > > > I wonder why no one else ever even inquired about this cache to the cache > > owner? I wonder why it was never archived? It appears the cache owner works > > The short answer to those two questions is: because if the cache is not > marked as "unavailable" or archived, one assumes that the cache is still > there and available.. and the cache maintainer is supposed to be regularly > visiting their cache to ensure that it is still there and in one piece. > > > > This is rapidly becoming a personal pet peeve of mine. I'm currently > visiting Colorado, and a significant number of the caches in the Denver > area are in various states of "missing", with no update from the cache > maintainer. Worse: there are a few that contain "notes" from the cache > maintainer that the cache is indeed not there, yet the are not marked > "unavailable". > > But the biggest issue is this "unmaintained" cache thing. There are a > number of caches out there that have no active maintainer. On a recent > trip to Bakersfield, there were no fewer than three caches (2/3 of the > caches in the area) that apparently have been abandoned by their owner and > not maintained. One of the abandoned caches in question was placed by a > group of schoolteachers! > > I don't blame the NPS for their policy. It's one thing to place a cache > in a location that you can frequently visit: that's not > "abandoning" it. But people often times place caches in locations that > they are visiting, or that they may never get to again. This is just > wrong. The NPS is charged with protecting the integrity of the sites > they control.. the don't want to have to clean up the mess that our hobby > can infrequently generate. > > A Geocacher in California I had the pleasure of having coffee with after > meeting them at a remote cache site said that people should use a "24-hour > rule" when placing caches. If you cannot be at the cache site in 24 > hours after somebody posts a "can't find" log OR after recieving notice > from somebody to remove your cache, you shouldn't place it. I think it's > a good rule: if you place a cache someplace in Utah and you're retired (or > work at home) so there's nothing stopping you from driving up to Utah and > retriving it on short notice, okay. If you can't be where you've placed > the cache the next day, you probably shouldn't place it. If there's no > way you could take a day off work to truck up there and get it, it > probably shouldn't be placed. > > Unmaintained Geocaches are just more litter on the side of the road. > > > A question to ponder: if a cache is found at least once every 24 hours, does > > that make it not abandoned property? If I remember from a past post on the > > list here, someone said the NP does not allow caches because they consider > > it abandoned property and property cannot remained unattended for more than > > 24 hours (or something like that). SO, if someone places a cache on NP land > > that is pretty easily accessible and close to a city (like Saguaro NP in > > Tucson), as long as there was a daily found log on that cache, would the NP > > service be in the wrong to remove it (for at least as long as it remains > > found on a daily basis)? This probably isnt realistic though. But, just > > pondering a question. There might just be a loophole here! > > Urban caches in Arizona often go weeks without a log, even when the are > easy to find and off major highways. For example, my own Wednesday Equals > Geeks cache hasn't been logged in a week, and as of three days ago it was > still there. And it's in an area with lots of other caches, easily > accessible from a freeway. > > I think even in Grand Canyon National Park a geocache would be hard > pressed to catch a log each day.. even if it had a huge neon sign with an > arrow pointing to the container. The sad fact of the matter is, there > just aren't enough Geocachers out there. I mean.. consider that AZ is a > hotbed of Geocaching activity. There are, what.. like maybe 100-200 > active cachers here? Out of how many million live in this state? And a > few of those "Active AZ Cachers" probably include people like Lost > Yankee.. snowbirds that are just here for a little while. > > The last, more important observation I have is.. do we WANT a > loophole? Wouldn't it be better for us to build our hobby to the point > that we can demonstrate to the NPS the benefits of a Geocache? Wouldn't > it be cool if after a large segment of the population gets interested in > this hobby that the NPS actually places a few officially maintained caches > in appropriate locations? This would benefit us a lot more than > potentiall pissing off the very people that we need to be on our side by > arguing and nitpicking at their policy. > > -Fedl > > _______________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list > listserv@azgeocaching.com > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com