Hi Fred, Thanks for the explanation and advise and welcome... I am also a Ham (N7TMY) and my fiance in Reno (soon to relocate, we hope!) is WB6ALS and works as a radio tech for Sierra Pacific/Nevada Power (who are on the verge of bankruptcy....) If you are ever journeying up Prescott way, give a heads up on email and maybe we can all meet. take care, Trisha "Lightning1996YCJP" (That is for Yavapai County Jeep Posse/Search and Rescue) Prescott On Fri, 12 April 2002, "Fred Coe" wrote > > Hmmmm, > > I guess it is time for me to weigh in on some of these issues. I usually > just lurk, particularly on issues relating to the management of public > lands, since I work for one of the agencies that is often much cussed and > discussed. I certainly don't wish to be accused of being 'undercover'.... > > First, I pretty well figured out that Ranger51 worked for the NPS since I > first got into Geocaching last January. It is likely a radio callsign. It > would follow what was a pretty standard NPS format, but then it has been > over 20 years since I worked for the NPS. I don't think that there was any > intent to be "undercover", if so, why choose such an obvious link to the > NPS? > > Second, s/he may very well of been given marching orders to remove caches > located on NPS administered lands. It may not of been the ranger's choice. > Often times the field personnel are given direction to do some pretty > unpopular (even among the staff) things. This is certainly true in my case. > On my unit, I was the most vocal and outspoken critic of the "Recreation > Fee Demonstration" program implemented on USFS and BLM land (as well as > raising to astronomical levels the entrance fee at the most > popular National Parks). What happen? I was made the "Rec Fee Coordinator" > . The outcome? After a rather lengthy and loud argument concerning "Rec > Fee" with my supervisor I found myself facing administrative charges for > engaging in work place violence. I was suspended for 45 days, demoted, and > moved into a non-public contact, technical support position. The only thing > that saved me from being "separated" (that's fired for those of you who > don't speak governmentese), were some "extenuating circumstances" (and a > good, if agressive lawyer). I'll probably never get another promotion, but > I've reached the point where I don't really care. The point? Sometimes in > government work you end up having to do things you really don't want to do. > > Third, there has been much discussion about working with the local units > (District Rangers, Recreation Staff, Field Office Managers, etc.). This > would be an ideal situation. And I think it would work well with the USFS, > BLM, and probably the FWS (opps, US Fish and Wildlife Service). My > experience is that those agencies (well, maybe not the FWS) are given more > autonomy at the field level. However, since the early '90's, Recreation > staff officers have been severely reduced. They are, in my opinion--and I > have a pretty good idea of what they are expected to do, since I used to be > one--pretty overworked. Frequently that have to deal with special uses, > leases, the mineral program, communication sites, trespass issues, boundary > adjustments, blah, blah, blah, in addition to the recreation program. > Many of these programs have received congressional direction--that is > congress has told us to do it, so it almost always gets done. That rarely > leaves much time for administering the recreation program. Since BLM and > USFS administered lands are "managed under the principals of multiple use > and sustained yield" (and, yes, I wish someone would explain what that means > to me, too) geocaching would seem to be perfectly acceptable activity. It > is rare that the NPS deals with these issues--they usually just say no (an > over simplification, they have the law, not just regulations on their side). > The point? Yea, work with the local folks if you can, but often you're > going to find someone facing other deadlines, doesn't want to increase their > workload, and if they don't say, "No", right away probably would be happy > with a "Don't ask, don't tell" relationship. But make sure you don't draw > attention to your cache by putting it in a sensitive area. > > Fourth, You can always go over the local folks head. From the local > recreation staff you can present your case to the local line officer, and > you can keep working your way up the chain. It is frustrating and can take > a while. You can also contact your local congressional delegation, and the > chairs of the appropriate House and Senate Committees. This gets very > risky. You may in up with something you don't like. I can visualize a > whole much of outcomes that result splintering the geocaching community, > thus giving it an even smaller voice than it has. But, my experience is > that the NPS is far more sensitive to congressional inquiries than either > the USFS or the BLM > > Fifth, I have reviewed a 1997 map of the area in question, and I agree with > Jim, I think this cache was at least 500 feet outside the boundary of the > park. Unless there was a recent boundary adjustment it looked to be about > 1/10 of a mile out of the park. If I can get to the BLM office (unlikely as > busy as I've been) I'll check the MTPs (opps there I go again, that's Master > Title Plats), kind of the offical US government surveys, they used to be on > microfiche (sp?), maybe they're on the net now. Need to look by Township > and Range.... > > OK, so who do I work far? I will mention this at some risk, being a > government employee doesn't always mean that the First Amendment applies to > you (I DO speak from experience).... > > Coronado National Forest, Radio System Manager (12/2001-Present) > Cleveland National Forest (San Diego, CA), variety of positions, last Radio > System Manager (10/1993-12/2002) > Santa Fe National Forest, Public Affairs Officer (3/1989-10/1993) > Ridgecrest (CA) RA Office, BLM, Interpretive Specialist (4/1981-3/1989) > Rawlins (WY), DO BLM, Wilderness Specialist (12/1978-4/1981) > Jefferson National Expansion Memorial National Historic Site, (what a name > for the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Ranger, NPS (6/74-12/78) > and seasonal Park Service jobs while going to college. > > FWIW: I always wanted to work in Civil War battlefields (my degree is in > Recreation, with a minor in American History), my father wanted me to be an > EE. Now I work with radios. Dad was right.... > > Note, that I work on radios. Lotsa radios. Close to 500 (repeaters, base > stations, mobiles, and portables) radios. I really don't have anything to do > about the management of National Forest System lands. I will probably never > again be in a position where I can influence management decisions on > geocaching on Forest Service administered lands. I'm not sure I would want > to be in such a position. > > My wife and I have used geocaching to learn our new hometown. We have > greatly enjoyed it. Since our home is under construction (well, we're > having trouble getting a building permit from Pima County, but that's > another story...) we have not yet placed any caches, but we have some ideas > and at the end of fire season (which started awful early this year) and when > our house is completed we hope to be offering some challenges. We enjoyed > meeting many cacher's at the "See You as Sus" event, and we look forward to > other get-togethers. > > Team Boulder Creek > Fred Coe (my wife is Bonnie) > Coronado-91 (after today maybe Coronado-9 or even CNF Comm-1, who knows?, > who cares?, my work radio callsign) > WA0RTO (my amateur radio callsign) > wa0rto@hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list > listserv@azgeocaching.com > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com