Fred, I enjoyed your commentary. Especially the part about working in Rawlins, Wyoming. My home town 1976-1988. Cody #2 >From: "Baja Fleg" >Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com >To: listserv@azgeocaching.com >Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Another Tucson cache bites it >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:54:32 -0600 > >So the stick beating and dragging behind the Jeeps stands!!! woohoo!!! > >Michael > > >----Original Message Follows---- >Hmmmm, > >I guess it is time for me to weigh in on some of these issues. I usually >just lurk, particularly on issues relating to the management of public >lands, since I work for one of the agencies that is often much cussed and >discussed. I certainly don't wish to be accused of being 'undercover'.... > >First, I pretty well figured out that Ranger51 worked for the NPS since I >first got into Geocaching last January. It is likely a radio callsign. It >would follow what was a pretty standard NPS format, but then it has been >over 20 years since I worked for the NPS. I don't think that there was any >intent to be "undercover", if so, why choose such an obvious link to the >NPS? > >Second, s/he may very well of been given marching orders to remove caches >located on NPS administered lands. It may not of been the ranger's choice. >Often times the field personnel are given direction to do some pretty >unpopular (even among the staff) things. This is certainly true in my >case. >On my unit, I was the most vocal and outspoken critic of the "Recreation >Fee Demonstration" program implemented on USFS and BLM land (as well as >raising to astronomical levels the entrance fee at the most >popular National Parks). What happen? I was made the "Rec Fee >Coordinator" >. The outcome? After a rather lengthy and loud argument concerning "Rec >Fee" with my supervisor I found myself facing administrative charges for >engaging in work place violence. I was suspended for 45 days, demoted, and >moved into a non-public contact, technical support position. The only >thing >that saved me from being "separated" (that's fired for those of you who >don't speak governmentese), were some "extenuating circumstances" (and a >good, if agressive lawyer). I'll probably never get another promotion, but >I've reached the point where I don't really care. The point? Sometimes in >government work you end up having to do things you really don't want to do. > >Third, there has been much discussion about working with the local units >(District Rangers, Recreation Staff, Field Office Managers, etc.). This >would be an ideal situation. And I think it would work well with the USFS, >BLM, and probably the FWS (opps, US Fish and Wildlife Service). My >experience is that those agencies (well, maybe not the FWS) are given more >autonomy at the field level. However, since the early '90's, Recreation >staff officers have been severely reduced. They are, in my opinion--and I >have a pretty good idea of what they are expected to do, since I used to be >one--pretty overworked. Frequently that have to deal with special uses, >leases, the mineral program, communication sites, trespass issues, boundary >adjustments, blah, blah, blah, in addition to the recreation program. >Many of these programs have received congressional direction--that is >congress has told us to do it, so it almost always gets done. That rarely >leaves much time for administering the recreation program. Since BLM and >USFS administered lands are "managed under the principals of multiple use >and sustained yield" (and, yes, I wish someone would explain what that >means >to me, too) geocaching would seem to be perfectly acceptable activity. It >is rare that the NPS deals with these issues--they usually just say no (an >over simplification, they have the law, not just regulations on their >side). >The point? Yea, work with the local folks if you can, but often you're >going to find someone facing other deadlines, doesn't want to increase >their >workload, and if they don't say, "No", right away probably would be happy >with a "Don't ask, don't tell" relationship. But make sure you don't draw >attention to your cache by putting it in a sensitive area. > >Fourth, You can always go over the local folks head. From the local >recreation staff you can present your case to the local line officer, and >you can keep working your way up the chain. It is frustrating and can take >a while. You can also contact your local congressional delegation, and the >chairs of the appropriate House and Senate Committees. This gets very >risky. You may in up with something you don't like. I can visualize a >whole much of outcomes that result splintering the geocaching community, >thus giving it an even smaller voice than it has. But, my experience is >that the NPS is far more sensitive to congressional inquiries than either >the USFS or the BLM > >Fifth, I have reviewed a 1997 map of the area in question, and I agree >with >Jim, I think this cache was at least 500 feet outside the boundary of the >park. Unless there was a recent boundary adjustment it looked to be about >1/10 of a mile out of the park. If I can get to the BLM office (unlikely >as >busy as I've been) I'll check the MTPs (opps there I go again, that's >Master >Title Plats), kind of the offical US government surveys, they used to be on >microfiche (sp?), maybe they're on the net now. Need to look by Township >and Range.... > >OK, so who do I work far? I will mention this at some risk, being a >government employee doesn't always mean that the First Amendment applies to >you (I DO speak from experience).... > >Coronado National Forest, Radio System Manager (12/2001-Present) >Cleveland National Forest (San Diego, CA), variety of positions, last Radio >System Manager (10/1993-12/2002) >Santa Fe National Forest, Public Affairs Officer (3/1989-10/1993) >Ridgecrest (CA) RA Office, BLM, Interpretive Specialist (4/1981-3/1989) >Rawlins (WY), DO BLM, Wilderness Specialist (12/1978-4/1981) >Jefferson National Expansion Memorial National Historic Site, (what a name >for the Gateway Arch in St. Louis), Ranger, NPS (6/74-12/78) >and seasonal Park Service jobs while going to college. > >FWIW: I always wanted to work in Civil War battlefields (my degree is in >Recreation, with a minor in American History), my father wanted me to be an >EE. Now I work with radios. Dad was right.... > >Note, that I work on radios. Lotsa radios. Close to 500 (repeaters, base >stations, mobiles, and portables) radios. I really don't have anything to >do >about the management of National Forest System lands. I will probably >never >again be in a position where I can influence management decisions on >geocaching on Forest Service administered lands. I'm not sure I would want >to be in such a position. > >My wife and I have used geocaching to learn our new hometown. We have >greatly enjoyed it. Since our home is under construction (well, we're >having trouble getting a building permit from Pima County, but that's >another story...) we have not yet placed any caches, but we have some ideas >and at the end of fire season (which started awful early this year) and >when >our house is completed we hope to be offering some challenges. We enjoyed >meeting many cacher's at the "See You as Sus" event, and we look forward to >other get-togethers. > >Team Boulder Creek >Fred Coe (my wife is Bonnie) >Coronado-91 (after today maybe Coronado-9 or even CNF Comm-1, who knows?, >who cares?, my work radio callsign) >WA0RTO (my amateur radio callsign) >wa0rto@hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list >listserv@azgeocaching.com >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > >_______________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list >listserv@azgeocaching.com >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com Visit the Sierra Vista Elks Web Page at http://communities.msn.com/ElkShutterBug _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx