Howdy All,

Thanks for the responses to my post. I got a few private responses as well 
as publicly on the list. Looks like it is about 50/50%. All the comments so 
far have been thoughtful and not negative. Thanks. I just wanted to express 
my thoughts on the subject.

As far as urban caches go... no, I dont think they should be done away with. 
I never stated that either. I just want to be rest assured they will be 
protected and cachers will act in such a away as to protect their 
exsistance. I agree, most urban caches are very well hidden. If you didnt 
know what you were looking for.. you would probably never find it. I have 
seen a couple that were in plain site though. I do indeed think urban caches 
are fun. As I said before, I do like that 'stealth mode' feel when going for 
one. There is a certain challenge that goes along with finding a particular 
urban cache. I personally prefer to go for an urban cache at night only. I 
will drive by it in the day and perhaps make a drive or walk past it and get 
a good idea of where it is... in that bush over there, or under that tree, 
etc. Then, come back at night when no one is around and go for the log! 
There is definetly a place for urban caches. Just need to be careful in 
placing them and hiding them well. I do agree that the urban caches are 
great for the families with children or those that cant hike longer 
distances or thru rugged terrain and for the other cachers, they are great 
quickies after work or during lunch. They can be had on the way to work or 
to run an errand. I think that is great. I do think that there is a right 
time of day and a wrong time to go for a particular urban cache. Depending 
on several variables of course. How many people around, how close to a major 
road, etc. The parkandcache cache, I thought, was a nighttime only find. I 
am sure there are those that got that one in the day and it is still 
there... so, must have been ok. I drove by it probably 2 or 3 times and 
didnt stop as there were way to many people in the park or the fact that it 
was right next to a major road. My thoughts were that someone will surely 
see me. I would probably look very suspicious at the very least. So, we came 
back at night and got that one (and it was VERY well hidden. I walked by it 
twice before finding it!). A week ago, I had my nephew in town. So, I 
figured having the kids along on an urban cache in a park would certainly 
look a lot less 'suspicious'. So, I brought them along and introduced them 
to the sport of geocaching! You should see the look on his face when the 
container is opened! :) LOL  I guess I should get married and have children!

As far as type of container... I agree with Brian Cluffs comments. He brings 
up some good points. He is probably right... an ammo box is probably more 
likely to be taken than a tupperware container or a paint can. I am just 
trying to think like a non-geocacher and what they might think if they 
should see a geocache container. Either way, I would hope they would read 
what it says and what the container stands for and let it be. I cannot 
understand why someone would want to spoil someone elses fun. But, there are 
some sick people out there with nothing better to do with their time than to 
do just that. I did see a great cache location that I thought was very 
creative. The cache container was totally put below ground level (in the 
ground) and only the lid exposed. The lid is only an inch high or so and can 
be easily hidden and covered up with leaves, etc. I thought that was great. 
An ammo can cannot be put in the ground like that as the lid opener is on 
the side of the container. So, other containers can work great. I just think 
they need to be neat and look clean and professional and not look like 
garbage or something. As far as Libby's posting goes... no, your paint cans 
do not offend me. If you read my post again, you will see that I stated that 
I dont have a problem with them. I am just trying to think like a 
non-geocacher and what they may view it as. If you like using paint cans... 
go for it. I have no problem with that. I do think there is a more 
professional look to an ammo box. However, as stated above and from other 
postings... the ammo cans can have their downsides. Sometimes, other 
cantainers do work better.

I am a hot air balloon pilot and I deal with landowner relations each and 
every time I fly. It is a subject that hits very close to home. I go where 
the wind goes and when it is time to land... well, it is time to land. 
Wherever that may be. Might be public land, might be private property. I 
have never had a negative reaction to one of my landings on private land as 
we usually are able to get quick permission before landing. Otherwise, I 
carry the proper permits ie: state trust land (which doubles as a geocache 
permit!, etc. If not, we just try and leave the land in the same, or better, 
condition then it was before we arrived. Usually then, the landowner sees no 
problem with our landing there as we didnt dissrupt his property in any way. 
This would also include not driving the chase vehicle on grass, rather 
carrying the equiptment out to the truck (even though it all weighs over 
600lbs!). This would also include not cutting fences to get a truck in. 
Simply carry the equiptment up and over and out. We want to keep the 
landowners were we fly happy and want them to welcome us with a smile.. not 
a shotgun! My team and I will go to great lengths to assure that it remains 
that way.

Not to change the subject there. But, I see some similarities with 
ballooning and geocaching in terms of landowner situations. Either sport can 
be very positively viewed or very negetively, depending on how the 
balloonist or cacher plays his game.

These were just some thoughts that I thought I would express here on the 
list. That is what this list is for! By us all saying out loud what is on 
our minds... will help the sport of geocaching grow. We all will dissagree 
with something someones says eventually, but, looks for the positives in it 
and then make your suggestions. That is what the list is for. Sometimes, two 
'ok' ideas can turn into one 'great' idea!

I thank those that responded so far. There are probably alot more people on 
this list that are quite and never post. If no one ever says what is on 
their mind.. the sport will never grow.

PS... Brian, nope. Just try and make it more difficult! :) LOL Also, I love 
your stats pages. Very well done. I can see there is a lot of time and 
effort put into a web page like that. The effort is very much appreciated. 
Thanks and keep up the great work!

Scott N.
arizcowboy@hotmail.com

Scotts Adventure Flying Web Page
http://www.geocities.com/safwp




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