thank you for your opinion but I will continue to use my camo( I enjoy painting them) paint cans if this oftens you please do not look for my caches.... They are all paint cans only the size differs. libby wolfb8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Nicol" To: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:44 PM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] thoughts about urban geocaches... > > Howdy, > > I went out this afternoon to run some errands and decided to go for a few > urban caches. I drove by 3 of them today and didnt even stop to do them. I > think I know right where they are at.. but, didnt stop as there was just way > to many people around to go for them. They were all in city parks. The ASU > Research Park one had not only people around, but, there are buildings > around it with windows that you cant see in.. but, you know they are looking > out at you! > > These 3 caches I drove by are, in my opinion, night time cache finds only > and will go back at night to find them sometime soon. > > I went to the airport to pick someone up on an arrival around 5:45pm today > and tried for a few around Tempe/Papago Park as well. I did get two in the > Papago Park area. I drove by A mountain but didnt make the climb. Way to > many people on the trail. Just to afraid I would get up there and not be > able to retreive the cache and log in without being seen. There is also > Sparky's Cache. I drove within 500 feet of that one and it looks like it is > right in amongst the buildings! That is surely a fun cache to get if you > like doing 'undercover' type work and the feeling that comes with it! I do. > But, again.. dont want to chance being seen and chancing someone taking the > cache. I was looking at the logs of the ones that I drove past but didnt do > and see they were all had during the day today. Not sure how. I wasnt about > to. I just didnt want to blow it and have someone see me. > > There is way to high of a risk of these urban caches being found by a > non-geocacher and being taken. I think it is important to return the > property around the cache to its very original state. In otherwords, dont > step on bushes for one. I have seen several caches that have alot of bushes > around them trampled on. That is not only a sure sign of where a cache is > hidden to another geocacher.. but, is also not a very positive thing for the > property owners to see. This can surely put geocaching, in that persons > eyes, as a very negative thing. Also, if you move rocks, I think it is very > important to put them back exactly as found and not strew them out around > the area. To keep the place looking exactly like it was before you arrived > is very important. One example is the 'sign of the past' cache I visited > this afternoon in Papago Park. Right around the immediate area of the cache, > there are obvious signs of pedestrian activity. In most desert parks.. it is > illegal to walk off a trail or path. Some even have signs reading to that > effect. The area around this particular cache has obvious signs of the area > being disrupted of its natural state. Again, if a park ranger were to see > this.. they would greatly frown upon the sport of geocaching. > > I propose this... I think that any urban caches should have a limit of say > 30 days perhaps. After that, they archive. That will limit the chance it > will be found by a non cacher. I think 30 days is plenty of time for anyone > that wants to go for that cache to get it. When I refer to urban caches.. I > mean the ones that are in parks and/or surrounded by houses. The makeout mnt > cache, for instance.. I dont consider a true urban cache. But, I have seen > caches in very populated parks and right amongst neighborhoods. I dont think > these caches shouldnt be hid in these spots.. they are great for a quickie > after work or something and are also good for the youngsters in the > geocaching families. But, how about limiting the time these caches are > stashed? Eventually, they will be found by a non-geocacher and will either > be stolen or damaged. The logs need to be recovered to prove that someone > actually was there and didnt just log their visit to move them up in ranking > or just show they have X number of caches. Where they really there? No way > to tell unless the log is recovered. (I do think we are all honest about > that though, afterall, this IS just for fun). > > Also, I think that all geocaches should use 'official' geocaching cases. > These appear to be the small green ammo boxes with the official geocaching > stickers on the side and the paperwork contained within explaining what it > is. I am starting to see several caches that were contained in pint size > paint cans and tupperware containers and such. If someone saw this.. it > could be percieved as trash (litter) and we all want to keep our lands > clean. The official ammo boxes look much more professional. These ammo cases > cost very little and can be had at a military surplus store or from a dealer > of geocache merchandise. If you archive your urban cache after say 30 days.. > you will be more likely to still have it there to be retrieved and the same > case used for another cache. > > Professionalism is another thing. I dont think the paint cans and such give > the sport of geocaching a very professional image. People will think we are > a bunch of litterbugs hiding paint cans and stuff in our national forests > and city parks, etc. Again, they could very well be percieved as trash in a > non-geocachers mind. Also, if the cache containers remain consistant (all > ammo boxes), as the sport becomes more mainstream... non cachers might begin > to recognize the typical geocache container and perhaps understand what it > is there for and not disrupt it if they should stumble upon it. I know if I > saw a paint can in a nice clean local park, I wouldnt think to highly of who > ever put it there. I know what it is there for as I am a geocacher and see > no problem with it. I am just trying to put myself in a non cachers shoes > and considering their thoughts. On the other hand... if I saw a nice clean > small ammo box with a nice clean 'official geocache' sticker on the side.. I > would perceive it as something of higher value. > > I am not trying to preach anything here. I am sure this is stuff most of us > have already heard. These are just thoughts from a new member of the > geocaching family. I now have 15 finds ranging from easy and quick urban > caches to hard to get to caches like the Lone Pine cache on top of 4 peaks. > Myself and my teamies are enjoying our new found hobby and want to see the > sport grow and keep a positive image. I think most will agree with me on > this. We have been geocaching now since the first week of January and > greatly enjoying the excercise the sport has brought us! (I really need > it!). ;) > > Thanks for allowing me to express my thoughts on the subject. > > Scott > Team Ropingthewind > > Scotts Adventure Flying Web Page > http://www.geocities.com/safwp > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > _______________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list > Az-Geocaching@listserv.snaptek.com > http://listserv.snaptek.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching >