<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That’s not very likely among this
bunch. But if there are issues, it falls back on those doing the approving,
because it isn’t difficult to figure out if an area is inside the
wilderness boundaries. In fact, they are usually bordered by a fence and
marked as being wilderness for those hoofing it to the caches.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Brian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Team A.I.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Esteban<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 21, 2008
11:27 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> listserv@azgeocaching.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Az-Geocaching]
Caching Group</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That's fine. I just
didn't want to start a witch hunt out of my ignorance.<br>
<br>
Esteban<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Brian Casteel <<a
href="mailto:bcasteel@uccinc.net">bcasteel@uccinc.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>I just wanted to map them and see if I could help out a bit
is all. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Brian</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Team A.I.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Esteban<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 21, 2008
10:57 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Az-Geocaching]
Caching Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I still have a lot to learn before I can say with
certainty that any cache is questionable. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed,
May 21, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Brian Casteel <<a href="mailto:bcasteel@uccinc.net"
target="_blank">bcasteel@uccinc.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>I would appreciate it if you would provide a list of at least
some of the GCs for the caches you find questionable in terms of their
location. You can e-mail me privately as well if you prefer.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Brian</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Team A.I.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Esteban<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 21, 2008
10:36 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Az-Geocaching]
Caching Group</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I did some reading online. I need to check this
out when i get home because it seems that, legally speaking, geocaching is
quite limited. So far it seems that several the caches that I had in mind
to visit may have been inappropriately placed...<br>
<br>
Anyway, thanks for this tip.<br>
<br>
Esteban<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed,
May 21, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Andrew Ayre <<a href="mailto:andy@britishideas.com"
target="_blank">andy@britishideas.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Wilderness
areas are marked on Topo maps, so you can clearly see the<br>
boundaries.<br>
<br>
Andy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Esteban wrote:<br>
> Do you have a link I can read up more on this? I will do a seach<br>
> myself, but I am curious what "wilderness" means because I can
think of<br>
> MANY caches here in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tucson</st1:place></st1:City>
that would seem to be part of the "wilderness."<br>
><br>
> Please excuse my ignorance and thank you for your patience. I am
very,<br>
> very new to this all.<br>
><br>
> - Esteban (bakura82)<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Brian Casteel <<a
href="mailto:bcasteel@uccinc.net" target="_blank">bcasteel@uccinc.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:bcasteel@uccinc.net" target="_blank">bcasteel@uccinc.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Any area designated as "wilderness", caches are
not allowed. Per<br>
> the Wilderness Act of 1964, such items are deemed trash and
thus,<br>
> are not permitted.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Brian<br>
><br>
> Team A.I.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> *From:* <a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>><br>
> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">az-geocaching-bounces@listserv.azgeocaching.com</a>>]
*On Behalf<br>
> Of *Esteban<br>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:03 AM<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
*To:* <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
*Subject:* Re: [Az-Geocaching] Caching Group<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Shadowace,<br>
><br>
> I am new to this all and I really appreciate this
information you<br>
> posted because I honestly had no idea how much trouble the
BLM says<br>
> we should be going to. So, for example, if someone
hides a parking<br>
> lot cache at ABC Supermarket, are they required to contact
the BLM<br>
> first and also the owner(s) of that land in which the
parking lot<br>
> resides for permission? Wow.<br>
><br>
> Also, you said "No wilderness area". What
exactly do you mean by this?<br>
><br>
> - Esteban (bakura82)<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:11:44 -0700<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
From: <a href="http://shadowace.az" target="_blank">shadowace.az</a>
<<a href="http://shadowace.az" target="_blank">http://shadowace.az</a>>@<a
href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a> <<a
href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">http://gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Caching Group<br>
><br>
> Another thing that was tried as a reason for the last
attempt was to<br>
> make a unified front of cachers to represent ourselves with
land<br>
> managers in regards to placing caches legally with
permission.<br>
><br>
> Many land managers are ready to see Geocaching
outlawed in this<br>
> state as well as other states because people simply refuse
to follow<br>
> simple guidelines such as 'get permission' 'no tribal lands'
'no NPS<br>
> lands' 'No Wilderness areas'<br>
><br>
> Now you begin to create a governing body to organize
all this<br>
> together and form a groups to work on it. Many times it is a
local<br>
> group in the area of the person who gets it going who is
then<br>
> speaking for all cachers in the state.<br>
><br>
> Do you really think you want to be the one going to
the BLM and<br>
> promising that every cache on BLM land will be placed only
after<br>
> obtaining permission from the BLM manager of the area?<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.blm.gov/az/outrec/geocache.htm"
target="_blank">http://www.blm.gov/az/outrec/geocache.htm</a><br>
><br>
> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s<br>
><br>
><br>
> *BLM's Geocaching Game Rules*<br>
><br>
> * _Identify proposed cache locations to the
local BLM office<br>
> before placing a cache_<br>
> * Do not place caches at archaeological sites<br>
> * Obtain a BLM permit for any competitive
events, contests for<br>
> prizes, paid participation, or caches
hosted by commercial<br>
> business<br>
> * Advise BLM if you observe any misuse or
abuse of a cache location<br>
><br>
> Do you really want to be the one staking your word
that everyone<br>
> else is following the rules?<br>
><br>
> Honest show of hands, how many truly get permission
before placing<br>
> a cache?<br>
><br>
> I like the idea of a geocaching organization statewide
however I<br>
> also see truth in reality and know as long as groundspeak is
open to<br>
> everyone then many will not follow the rules and I for one
no longer<br>
> wish to stick my neck out with land managers.<br>
><br>
> ~ShadowAce / Dirk<br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________________<br>
> Az-Geocaching mailing list <a
href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
> <a
href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
><br>
> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
> <a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>><br>
> ____________________________________________________________<br>
> Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
> To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
> <a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
><br>
> <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
> <a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>--<br>
Andy<br>
PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864<br>
____________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Az-Geocaching
mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
<a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
<a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com"
target="_blank">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
<a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
<a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Az-Geocaching mailing list <a href="mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</a><br>
To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:<br>
<a href="http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching"
target="_blank">http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching</a><br>
<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>'s
Geocaching Resource<br>
<a href="http://www.azgeocaching.com" target="_blank">http://www.azgeocaching.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>