[Az-Geocaching] Paychecks, freeways and SuperCops
Brian Casteel
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:39:43 -0700
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I was in the same position back in August 2001, just a few weeks before =
9/11. The job market for several months was far worse than it is now. =
Supporting a family of 4 on that pay isn't easy, but I would be more =
than happy to have that salary if I were single.=20
We try to let the birds take the chase if they are available and =
depending on the crime committed. Some are such serious offenders that =
the risk can't be taken to keep ground units too far away in the off =
chance that the bad guy escapes. DPS has 4 helicopters for various =
regions of the state. However, at any time they can be pulled from an =
active pursuit or other LE mission to assist in their primary mission as =
DPS Air Rescue. That would involve medical missions such as collision =
scenes or even mountain rescues. Often times, the bad guy will still =
wreck despite the pursuit being called off...PERIOD
No I don't believe that you shouldn't protect yourself. I too, am a CCW =
holder, and fully intend on defending myself until officers arrive =
should the situation it be required. Take note that the [quote] =
indicates a quote belonging to another person. Quoting myself in the =
first person seems ridiculous, doesn't it?
There are currently over 200 positions available state-wide for =
officers, many in the metro Phoenix area. Due to the governor and the =
glorious legislature, we haven't been able to add any new officers above =
and beyond the existing counts for 10 years. Yet in that time, the =
entire Loop 202 was built, Loop 101 was also constructed, and several =
freeways were extended/widened. The East Valley Holiday DUI Task Force =
is just about the only time of year you truly see enough officers on the =
streets, albeit one specific area of concentration. Sadly, it doesn't =
seem to slow drinking and driving down, because year after year new =
records are set for BAC and total arrests. More and more of those =
arrests are DUI drugs as well.
You do have the right to be left alone if doing nothing wrong. But =
suspicion plays a big role in police work, and they have the right to =
find out if you are harmlessly poking around in a bush ir if you plans =
on molesting it. There's nothing that says an officer can't ask you =
what you are doing, and it's truly best to answer up as though you have =
nothing to hide (because it's the truth, right?)
The guy getting arrested for ignoring the officers most likely was for =
failure to obey a police officer. If they tell you to stop, do so. =
Look at it this way. You're sitting on a park bench, replacing that =
micro, when an officer drives by and see it. In my mind, that would =
trigger suspicion, because that tin could hold information for a drug =
dealer or some other type of crime. I would choose to investigate and =
ask a few questions. If you or anyone else felt that was wrong and was =
in the situation directly, by all means contact the officers supervisor. =
That's what chain-of-command is all about.
99% of cops out there are good, and not looking to flex the brass muscle =
they wear on their chest. As I've said before, a few bad ones ruin it =
for all, and we shouldn't let that mar our perception of officers. =
Heck, a few of the officers I work with on a daily basis I might =
consider jerkish at times, but largely they are great people. =20
Brian
Team A.I.
HA! From where I am at (no job at all), $36, 816 sounds pretty damn good =
to me. They don't like it? Try McDonalds or some other low-paying job =
like the rest of the working class world and see how they get by.
By the way, I never liked Napolitano anyhow.
Safe society.
Or the guy who carjacks your car while high on methamphetamine =
should be allowed to take it home and enjoy his spoils until he gets =
bored with it and torches it somewhere in the desert with the body of a =
hooker he killed for drug money in the trunk. =20
I never understood the big drama about getting a jacked car back: =
why don't cops just follow with a chopper instead of instigating a big =
show with all the cop cars chasing, closing down freeways, dangerously =
high speeds, etc? (and don't say "(helicoptor=3Dexpensive, how much does =
it cost to tie up 2 or 3 departments in a freeway chase, not counting =
productivity and work hours lost because the guy rolled the vehicle =
trying to get away, tying up all those commuters on the road.) Let the =
guy think he got away with it so he drives normally. After the guy gets =
to where he is going and THEN gets out of the vehicle, go ahead and move =
in. My vehicle is INSURED, if someone steals it, let it go, I don't =
care. Don't put innocent people at risk. But no, it's this big =
testosterone macho rush to go get the "bad guy" and be the hero. Hey, I =
paid my insurance premiums, that's what they are for. Please don't kill =
someone trying to get my friggin vehicle back. I can get another one.=20
[quote]
Law enforcement is a thankless job, but I believe that the cops =
bring a lot=20
of that upon themselves. We seem to forget that our safety should =
fall on=20
our own shoulders first and that we should be responsible for our =
own safety.
[/quote]
I disagree. =20
[quote]
Really? You disagree with the fact that I should protect myself or =
that the cops bring it upon themselves? Please clarify
I cordially invite you to spend a shift with me in OpComm at DPS =
Headquarters. If that doesn't change your belief that there aren't =
enough cops on the streets (in this case, the metro-Phoenix highways), =
nothing will. =20
I actually agree that there should be more cops on the freeways. =
Speeds there average 20 mph over the limit. It has gotten ridiculous out =
there. If I am going 10 over, people are still flashing headlights =
behind me and speeding past at 90-95 mph. They need to slow it down. =
(And then they complain about how much gas costs these days, go figure.)
Back to the real issue...harassment of Geocachers.
That was the original issue, but the case o' worms was opened when =
such a harshly toned attack on police officers (LE in general) was sent =
out.
Being questioned by an officer while geocaching doesn't constitute =
harassment. =20
But don't I have the RIGHT to be left alone if I am not doing =
anything WRONG? The courts think so, and found in favor of a guy who =
just kept on walking down the street after trying to be questioned by =
officers. They ended up arresting him. It was here in the Phoenix area, =
too, I believe. He just ignored the officers and kept on going about his =
business, nothing of which was illegal.=20
Now, that being said, it is not in MY best interests to ignore a cop =
when questioned. Someone poking around in a bush at midnight WOULD =
probably look suspicious, therefore I do my caching during daylight =
hours. It would seem that ONCE AGAIN, geocachers have run into =
"SuperCop". Most officers have common sense, this guy seems to need a =
refresher course. It would be very easy to find out the name of this =
individual, by getting in touch with the supervisor, they can see who =
was where at what time. I would even write a letter (or a few of them).
That's all.
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was in the same position back in =
August 2001,=20
just a few weeks before 9/11. The job market for several months =
was far=20
worse than it is now. Supporting a family of 4 on that pay isn't =
easy, but=20
I would be more than happy to have that salary if I were=20
single. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We try to let the birds take the chase =
if they are=20
available and depending on the crime committed. Some are such =
serious=20
offenders that the risk can't be taken to keep ground units too far away =
in the=20
off chance that the bad guy escapes. DPS has 4 helicopters for =
various=20
regions of the state. However, at any time they can be pulled from =
an=20
active pursuit or other LE mission to assist in their primary mission as =
DPS Air=20
Rescue. That would involve medical missions such as collision =
scenes or=20
even mountain rescues. Often times, the bad guy will still wreck =
despite=20
the pursuit being called off...PERIOD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I don't believe that you shouldn't =
protect=20
yourself. I too, am a CCW holder, and fully intend on defending =
myself=20
until officers arrive should the situation it be required. Take =
note that=20
the [quote] indicates a quote belonging to another person. Quoting =
myself=20
in the first person seems ridiculous, doesn't it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are currently over 200 positions =
available=20
state-wide for officers, many in the metro Phoenix area. Due to =
the=20
governor and the glorious legislature, we haven't been able to add any =
new=20
officers above and beyond the existing counts for 10 years. Yet in =
that=20
time, the entire Loop 202 was built, Loop 101 was also constructed, and =
several=20
freeways were extended/widened. The East Valley Holiday DUI Task =
Force is=20
just about the only time of year you truly see enough officers on the =
streets,=20
albeit one specific area of concentration. Sadly, it doesn't seem =
to slow=20
drinking and driving down, because year after year new records are set =
for BAC=20
and total arrests. More and more of those arrests are DUI drugs as =
well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You do have the right to be left alone =
if doing=20
nothing wrong. But suspicion plays a big role in police work, and =
they=20
have the right to find out if you are harmlessly poking around in a bush =
ir if=20
you plans on molesting it. There's nothing that says an officer =
can't ask=20
you what you are doing, and it's truly best to answer up as though you =
have=20
nothing to hide (because it's the truth, right?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The guy getting arrested for ignoring =
the officers=20
most likely was for failure to obey a police officer. If they tell =
you to=20
stop, do so. Look at it this way. You're sitting on a park =
bench,=20
replacing that micro, when an officer drives by and see it. In my =
mind,=20
that would trigger suspicion, because that tin could hold information =
for a drug=20
dealer or some other type of crime. I would choose to investigate =
and ask=20
a few questions. If you or anyone else felt that was wrong and was =
in the=20
situation directly, by all means contact the officers supervisor. =
That's=20
what chain-of-command is all about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>99% of cops out there are good, and not =
looking to=20
flex the brass muscle they wear on their chest. As I've said =
before, a few=20
bad ones ruin it for all, and we shouldn't let that mar our perception =
of=20
officers. Heck, a few of the officers I work with on a daily basis =
I might=20
consider jerkish at times, but largely they are great people. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Team A.I.</FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000>HA! From where I am at (no job at all), $36, =
816 sounds=20
pretty damn good to me. They don't like it? Try McDonalds or some other=20
low-paying job like the rest of the working class world and see how they =
get=20
by.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>By the way, I never liked Napolitano=20
anyhow.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Safe society.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or the guy who carjacks your car =
while high on=20
methamphetamine should be allowed to take it home and enjoy his =
spoils until=20
he gets bored with it and torches it somewhere in the desert with =
the body=20
of a hooker he killed for drug money in the trunk. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>I never understood the big drama about =
getting a=20
jacked car back: why don't cops just follow with a chopper instead =
of=20
instigating a big show with all the cop cars chasing, closing down =
freeways,=20
dangerously high speeds, etc? (and don't say =
"(helicoptor=3Dexpensive, how=20
much does it cost to tie up 2 or 3 departments in a freeway chase, =
not=20
counting productivity and work hours lost because the guy rolled the =
vehicle=20
trying to get away, tying up all those commuters on the road.) Let =
the guy=20
think he got away with it so he drives normally. After the guy gets =
to where=20
he is going and THEN gets out of the vehicle, go ahead and move in. =
My=20
vehicle is INSURED, if someone steals it, let it go, I don't care. =
Don't put=20
innocent people at risk. But no, it's this big testosterone =
macho rush=20
to go get the "bad guy" and be the hero. Hey, I paid my insurance =
premiums,=20
that's what they are for. Please don't kill someone trying to get my =
friggin=20
vehicle back.</FONT> <FONT color=3D#ff0000>I can get another one. =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[quote]</FONT></P>
<P>Law enforcement is a thankless job, but I believe that the cops =
bring a=20
lot <BR>of that upon themselves. We seem to forget that our =
safety=20
should fall on <BR>our own shoulders first and that we should be =
responsible=20
for our own safety.</P>
<P>[/quote]</P>
<P>I disagree. </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[quote]</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Really? You disagree with the fact that I =
should=20
protect myself or that the cops bring it upon themselves? Please=20
clarify</FONT></P>
<P>I cordially invite you to spend a shift with me in OpComm at DPS=20
Headquarters. If that doesn't change your belief that there =
aren't=20
enough cops on the streets (in this case, the metro-Phoenix =
highways),=20
nothing will. </P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>I actually agree that there should be more =
cops on=20
the freeways. Speeds there average 20 mph over the limit. It =
has gotten=20
ridiculous out there. If I am going 10 over, people are still =
flashing=20
headlights behind me and speeding past at 90-95 mph. They need to =
slow it=20
down. (And then they complain about how much gas costs these days, =
go=20
figure.)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Back to the real issue...harassment =
of=20
Geocachers.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That was the original issue, but the =
case o'=20
worms was opened when such a harshly toned attack on police officers =
(LE in=20
general) was sent out.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Being questioned by an officer while =
geocaching=20
doesn't constitute harassment. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>But don't I have the RIGHT to be left alone =
if I am=20
not doing anything WRONG? The courts think so, and found in favor of =
a guy=20
who just kept on walking down the street after trying to be =
questioned by=20
officers. They ended up arresting him. It was here in the Phoenix =
area, too,=20
I believe. He just ignored the officers and kept on going about =
his=20
business, nothing of which was illegal. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Now, that being said, it is not in MY best =
interests=20
to ignore a cop when questioned. Someone poking around in a bush at =
midnight=20
WOULD probably look suspicious, therefore I do my caching during =
daylight=20
hours. It would seem that ONCE AGAIN, geocachers have run into =
"SuperCop".=20
Most officers have common sense, this guy seems to need a refresher =
course.=20
It would be very easy to find out the name of this individual, by =
getting in=20
touch with the supervisor, they can see who was where at what time. =
I would=20
even write a letter (or a few of them).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000>That's all.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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