[Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long]
Regan L Smith
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:50:39 -0700
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I will continue to refer to you as an Ambassador to Geocaching
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Team Tierra Buena=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long]
Nice read Steve the only thing I am fuzzy on is what I call you? :)
"Steve" usually gets my attention. J I did attend another land =
management meeting back in January where I introduced myself as "an =
unofficial, unelected representative of a nonexistent organization".
I still need to get back with P Liddy of the Mesa Ranger District and =
talk about a cache for the Bull Dog Canyon area....thanks for the =
reminder=20
I thought he was a rapper?
Steve
Team Tierra Buena
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Team Tierra Buena=20
To: Arizona Geocaching=20
Cc: Mary L. Estes=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:00 PM
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long]
Besides posting this on the azgeocaching.com mailing list, I am =
copying Mary Estes, who heads up the Site Steward program, and arranged =
and facilitated last night's meeting. I hope that others who attended =
the meeting will also post their impressions and opinions, particularly =
where they disagree with my views.
The Geocaching community was represented by Marc and Julie (Tamo's =
Clan'Destiny), Brian (Team Snaptek and azgeocaching.com), Christy and =
Joe (Pet Posse), Mark (Highway Havoc), Bob Renner (Bob Renner), and me. =
(Did I forget anyone? My apologies if I did. Lately my memory cells seem =
to be flaking off faster than my dandruff.) The land management agencies =
represented included the State Historic Preservation Office (which =
sponsors the Site Steward program), City of Phoenix, City of Scottsdale, =
Maricopa County, Bureau of Land Management, Tonto National Forest, and =
the Kofa National Wildlife Refuge outside of Yuma.
I think the atmosphere was very different from the meeting that was =
held a year ago. I believe this is due to the fact that the land =
managers recognize that most Geocachers want to practice our recreation =
in a responsible fashion, and that we have done and continue to do what =
we can as a "virtual community" to educate others in what our =
responsibilities are. I would go so far as to say that every land =
management representative in attendance recognizes the positives in an =
activity such as Geocaching, and they are willing to support it insofar =
as it doesn't conflict with the regulations of their respective agencies =
(and we have to remember that every paid land management representative =
at that meeting gets their pay from some government agency or other).
I've preached this before here, but it was said repeatedly last =
night: The best thing we can do to prevent problems is to obtain =
permission before placing a cache. That's not always the easiest thing =
in the world to do, and everyone in attendance recognized that. The =
issues range from trying to figure out which agency is responsible for =
the area where you want to place the cache, to finding our what that =
agency's rules are, to finding someone who actually knows what you're =
talking about and can help you. But it's worth the effort.
Everyone also seems to be aware that not every Geocacher in Arizona =
subscribes to this mailing list, or is even aware that azgeocaching.com =
exists, and that people, particularly newcomers, may go off more in =
ignorance than anything else and do something that they shouldn't. I =
think it is up to us to do what we can to let new cachers know about =
resources such as this mailing list and web site. Brian stated that he =
would be updating the links on the web site to reflect some of the new =
Geocaching policies we have received (and I'll get you the BLM policy =
tomorrow, Brian). And we hope to be able to put together a starter list =
of permission contacts for those agencies where we have them.
This seems like a good time to remind everyone of what we came up =
with after last year's meeting, which got dubbed "Geo-mentoring". If you =
own a cache, and get a log entry from someone who is relatively new =
(based on their find count), why not drop them a note welcoming them to =
Geocaching and letting them know about azgeocaching.com and the =
listserv? If anyone would like a copy of the boilerplate I use for this, =
drop me an email.
Random notes: The Phoenix Preserve sounds as though they are going =
to be enforcing their "no off-trail" policy more strictly. I don't have =
my copy of the policy with me here, but everyone who attended got a =
copy, so I hope someone will post it in short order.
Tonto National Forest continues to welcome Geocaching, except in =
designated wilderness areas and anywhere that would threaten an =
archaeological site. It is for the latter reason that they "suggest but =
do not require" that you contact the appropriate District Office before =
you place a cache within Tonto.
One item that saddened me a little was that Maricopa County Parks =
and Recreation announced that they are going to be updating their =
Geocaching policy and eliminate the "two-mile rule". But since they want =
permission from the Park Supervisor for any caches placed within their =
parks, I think it might still be possible to work with them if you have =
a good location that's far enough back from the trailhead and not too =
far (whatever that means) off the trail. It was nice to hear that the =
Pet Posse are working with the county staff to see if they might be able =
to implement a reduced "geocaching-only entrance fee".=20
Kofa NWR has some concerns about some specific caches already placed =
within the Refuge, but Susana Henry, the representative from Kofa, told =
me she would look into them individually herself. Again, she does not =
appear to be opposed to caches within the Refuge, so I would advise =
anyone planning on placing a cache down there to contact her at the =
refuge first.
The question was raised about obtaining land management permission =
for virtual caches (the question of whether we can obtain permission for =
virtual caches from The Powers What Am at geoaching.com is a separate =
issue and irrelevant to this discussion). There are several perspectives =
on this from the land management side, but my sense of the consensus was =
that if the virtual is located in a maintained public place that =
permission would not be necessary, but if the site is off trail or =
similar than permission should be requested (although personally I still =
wouldn't attempt to place a virtual at the Deer Valley Rock Art Center). =
Finally, we decided to try something new when we next have a meeting =
such as this. Since the next best thing we can do (other than getting =
permission for caches) is to spread the gospel of Responsible Geocaching =
and educate new cachers, we are going to set up the next meeting as an =
event cache, and actively seek newer Geocachers as attendees. We will =
have a lot of details to work out over the next several months, from =
content to whether we will need to limit attendance, but as it comes =
together I'll keep you posted. Don't be surprised if it's a year off, =
though.
What pleases me most about the above idea (which came from Mary =
Estes) is that it seems to indicate that most land managers no longer =
see Geocaching as merely a threat against the lands they manage (a =
sardonic "thanks again" to Christina Leonard of the "Republic" for =
originally provoking that attitude), but rather as an activity that with =
some exceptions does have a beneficial place on public lands.
My heartfelt thanks to everyone who attended, cachers and land =
managers alike.
Steve
Team Tierra Buena
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will continue to refer to you as an =
Ambassador to=20
Geocaching</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DTeamTierraBuena@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:TeamTierraBuena@earthlink.net">Team Tierra Buena</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 01, =
2003 7:44=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
Report from=20
Pueblo Grande [Long]</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Nice read=20
Steve the only thing I am fuzzy on is what I call you? =
:)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=93Steve=94=20
usually gets my attention. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DWingdings =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I =
did attend=20
another land management meeting back in January where I introduced =
myself as=20
=93an unofficial, unelected representative of a nonexistent=20
organization=94.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">I still=20
need to get back with P Liddy of the Mesa Ranger District and talk =
about a=20
cache for the </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bull</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dog</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Canyon</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
area....thanks for the reminder </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">I=20
thought he was a rapper?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Steve</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Team=20
Tierra Buena</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">-----=20
Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black">
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: =
0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <A=20
title=3DTeamTierraBuena@earthlink.net=20
href=3D"mailto:TeamTierraBuena@earthlink.net">Team Tierra Buena</A>=20
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <A=20
title=3Daz-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
href=3D"mailto:az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com">Arizona =
Geocaching</A>=20
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Cc:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <A=20
title=3Dmestes@pr.state.az.us =
href=3D"mailto:mestes@pr.state.az.us">Mary L.=20
Estes</A> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wednesday, October 01, =
2003</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3:00=20
PM</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
[Az-Geocaching] Report from </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Pueblo</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> Grande=20
[Long]</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Besides posting this =
on the=20
azgeocaching.com mailing list, I am copying Mary Estes, who heads up =
the=20
Site Steward program, and arranged and facilitated last night's =
meeting. I=20
hope that others who attended the meeting will also post their =
impressions=20
and opinions, particularly where they disagree with my=20
views.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Geocaching =
community was=20
represented by Marc and Julie (Tamo's Clan'Destiny), Brian (Team =
Snaptek and=20
azgeocaching.com), Christy and Joe (Pet Posse), Mark (Highway =
Havoc), Bob=20
Renner (Bob Renner), and me. (Did I forget anyone? My apologies if I =
did.=20
Lately my memory cells seem to be flaking off faster than my =
dandruff.) The=20
land management agencies represented included the State Historic=20
Preservation Office (which sponsors the Site Steward program), City =
of=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Phoenix</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">, City=20
of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Scottsdale</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">,=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Maricopa</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">County</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">, Bureau=20
of Land Management, </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Tonto</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">National=20
Forest</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, and the Kofa =
National Wildlife=20
Refuge outside of </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Yuma</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think the atmosphere =
was very=20
different from the meeting that was held a year ago. I believe this =
is due=20
to the fact that the land managers recognize that most Geocachers =
want to=20
practice our recreation in a responsible fashion, and that we have =
done and=20
continue to do what we can as a "virtual community" to educate =
others in=20
what our responsibilities are. I would go so far as to say that =
every land=20
management representative in attendance recognizes the positives in =
an=20
activity such as Geocaching, and they are willing to support it =
insofar as=20
it doesn't conflict with the regulations of their respective =
agencies (and=20
we have to remember that every paid land management representative =
at that=20
meeting gets their pay from some government agency or=20
other).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I've preached this =
before here,=20
but it was said repeatedly last night: The best thing we can do to =
prevent=20
problems is to obtain permission before placing a cache. That's not =
always=20
the easiest thing in the world to do, and everyone in attendance =
recognized=20
that. The issues range from trying to figure out which agency is =
responsible=20
for the area where you want to place the cache, to finding our what =
that=20
agency's rules are, to finding someone who actually knows what =
you're=20
talking about and can help you. But it's worth the =
effort.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Everyone also seems to =
be aware=20
that not every Geocacher in Arizona subscribes to this mailing list, =
or is=20
even aware that azgeocaching.com exists, and that people, =
particularly=20
newcomers, may go off more in ignorance than anything else and do =
something=20
that they shouldn't. I think it is up to us to do what we can to let =
new=20
cachers know about resources such as this mailing list and web site. =
Brian=20
stated that he would be updating the links on the web site to =
reflect some=20
of the new Geocaching policies we have received (and I'll get you =
the BLM=20
policy tomorrow, Brian). And we hope to be able to put together a =
starter=20
list of permission contacts for those agencies where we have=20
them.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This seems like a good =
time to=20
remind everyone of what we came up with after last year's meeting, =
which got=20
dubbed "Geo-mentoring". If you own a cache, and get a log entry from =
someone=20
who is relatively new (based on their find count), why not drop them =
a note=20
welcoming them to Geocaching and letting them know about =
azgeocaching.com=20
and the listserv? If anyone would like a copy of the boilerplate I =
use for=20
this, drop me an email.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Random notes: The =
Phoenix=20
Preserve sounds as though they are going to be enforcing their "no=20
off-trail" policy more strictly. I don't have my copy of the policy =
with me=20
here, but everyone who attended got a copy, so I hope someone will =
post it=20
in short order.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tonto National Forest =
continues=20
to welcome Geocaching, except in designated wilderness areas and =
anywhere=20
that would threaten an archaeological site. It is for the latter =
reason that=20
they "suggest but do not require" that you contact the appropriate =
District=20
Office before you place a cache within Tonto.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One item that saddened =
me a=20
little was that Maricopa County Parks and Recreation announced that =
they are=20
going to be updating their Geocaching policy and eliminate the =
"two-mile=20
rule". But since they want permission from the Park Supervisor for =
any=20
caches placed within their parks, I think it might still be possible =
to work=20
with them if you have a good location that's far enough back from =
the=20
trailhead and not too far (whatever that means) off the trail. It =
was nice=20
to hear that the Pet Posse are working with the county staff to see =
if they=20
might be able to implement a reduced "geocaching-only entrance fee". =
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kofa NWR has some =
concerns about=20
some specific caches already placed within the Refuge, but Susana =
Henry, the=20
representative from Kofa, told me she would look into them =
individually=20
herself. Again, she does not appear to be opposed to caches within =
the=20
Refuge, so I would advise anyone planning on placing a cache down =
there to=20
contact her at the refuge first.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The question was =
raised about=20
obtaining land management permission for virtual caches (the =
question of=20
whether we can obtain permission for virtual caches from The Powers =
What Am=20
at geoaching.com is a separate issue and irrelevant to this =
discussion).=20
There are several perspectives on this from the land management =
side, but my=20
sense of the consensus was that if the virtual is located in a =
maintained=20
public place that permission would not be necessary, but if the site =
is off=20
trail or similar than permission should be requested (although =
personally I=20
still wouldn't attempt to place a virtual at the Deer Valley Rock =
Art=20
Center). </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Finally, we decided to =
try=20
something new when we next have a meeting such as this. Since the =
next best=20
thing we can do (other than getting permission for caches) is to =
spread the=20
gospel of Responsible Geocaching and educate new cachers, we are =
going to=20
set up the next meeting as an event cache, and actively seek newer=20
Geocachers as attendees. We will have a lot of details to work out =
over the=20
next several months, from content to whether we will need to limit=20
attendance, but as it comes together I'll keep you posted. Don't be=20
surprised if it's a year off, though.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What pleases me most =
about the=20
above idea (which came from Mary Estes) is that it seems to indicate =
that=20
most land managers no longer see Geocaching as merely a threat =
against the=20
lands they manage (a sardonic "thanks again" to Christina Leonard of =
the=20
"Republic" for originally provoking that attitude), but rather as an =
activity that with some exceptions does have a beneficial place on =
public=20
lands.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My heartfelt thanks to =
everyone=20
who attended, cachers and land managers alike.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Steve</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Team Tierra=20
=
Buena</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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